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  1. #211
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I never really thought of Injustice Superman as a mustache-twirler. He was more mentally unstable in my opinion.
    Perhaps I'm misusing the term "mustache-twirling," but in this sense I use it to mean a guy who's so laughably evil with no redeeming qualities. There's no debate on who's right or wrong, and the writing portrays them rather unsympathetically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    To be fair though, the comic also ends with Superman realizing he’s no better than Brainiac. So Superman attempting to exercise control over everything is very much his main flaw in the comic as well. The difference between the movie and the comic I’d say is that comic Superman is more naive than movie Superman. He doesn’t realize that Diana is in love with him for example, or that he’s unconsciously seeking to emulate Brainiac until Luthor literally spells it out for him. Movie Superman understands what he’s doing, but he deluded himself into thinking he was better than Stalin because he shut down the Gulags.

    In the end though what separates Red Son Superman from your typical Evil Superman is
    1. He’s still able to be saved because he thinks his actions are morally justified. Justice Lord Superman explicitly doesn’t care about being a hero anymore. Injustice Superman is insane and can’t be reached. Red Son Superman is simply delusional and once his delusions are stripped away and he’s forced to see that what he’s doing is wrong, he finally backs down

    2. Unlike Justice Lord or Injustice Supermen, Red Son Superman doesn’t get a hard-on for killing everything in his way after he kills for the first time. He still retains enough of his moral core to avoid killing when necessary but he goes for the equally morally messed up option of brainwashing. He’s traumatized by killing Stalin unlike Justice Lord Superman who coldly smirks and tells Diana he feels great after killing Lex, or Injustice Superman who goes and throws a temper tantrum at Batman blaming him for everything. Red Son Superman owns what he did and owns that what he did was wrong, but that he felt it was necessary. Red Son Superman is still an idealist at heart and that’s what separates him.

    Honestly maybe I’m just happy that they didn’t make Batman into the noble heroic rebel again so I’m willing to excuse a lot of the movies shortcomings. But I felt that however imperfect the movie might be, they did manage to get the core right and that’s enough for me. Man it feels good to talk about a Superman product I’m actually overall happy about lol.
    Yes, I hear you. Just being happy with an animated (or anything, really) Superman is a thing of joy. I also admit I'm nitpicking.

    I think I actually liked RS Superman's short-sightedness, or at least it was an important aspect of the character that made him short of reprehensible. He is one of the story narrators, and the narration comes from the PoV of a guy who's looking back after the fact, now knowing better but wishing he did back then. I get that you can rarely get that in movies, and that's one reason I tend to like written stuff more than their movie/TV adaptations, though.

  2. #212
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Totally understand that. As good as the animated DKR two parter was, it still didn’t reach the heights of the comic for me. Losing out on Batman’s narration really brought the work down, but when they did include the internal narration in Year One it just sounded weird. Superman in the DKR lost a lot of his sympathetic traits as well without his internal monologues, because they’re the ones that make it clear he’s not happy about the current status quo or that he is basically being used as a weapon by Reagan. Without those monologues he just comes off as a brainless stooge. Some stuff just doesn’t translate perfectly when you take it from one medium to the a different one. Maybe down the road we’ll get a live action Red Son adaption that you’ll like more, at least one person already submitted a pitch for that.

  3. #213
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Totally understand that. As good as the animated DKR two parter was, it still didn’t reach the heights of the comic for me. Losing out on Batman’s narration really brought the work down, but when they did include the internal narration in Year One it just sounded weird. Superman in the DKR lost a lot of his sympathetic traits as well without his internal monologues, because they’re the ones that make it clear he’s not happy about the current status quo or that he is basically being used as a weapon by Reagan. Without those monologues he just comes off as a brainless stooge. Some stuff just doesn’t translate perfectly when you take it from one medium to the a different one. Maybe down the road we’ll get a live action Red Son adaption that you’ll like more, at least one person already submitted a pitch for that.
    Thanks. BTW, who submitted the pitch? I know Cavill likes the story, but I haven't heard much about it from the ******action side.

  4. #214
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Thanks. BTW, who submitted the pitch? I know Cavill likes the story, but I haven't heard much about it from the ******action side.
    Jordan Vought-Roberts pitched one, have no clue if he’s good or not. WB passed on it to focus on the DCEU and we all knew how THAT turned out. After Joker’s success though, who knows?

  5. #215
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    The infamous and controversial Grace Randolph loved Red Son. I know, she is very controversial and annoying, but I sometimes agree with her.

    I'm noticing a lot of division about this movie. Some hate it because it changed things they considered very important, but others love it for how how well the drama and issues are treated. I'm intrigued! Still need to wait till next month.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    The infamous and controversial Grace Randolph loved Red Son. I know, she is very controversial and annoying, but I sometimes agree with her.

    I'm noticing a lot of division about this movie. Some hate it because it changed things they considered very important, but others love it for how how well the drama and issues are treated. I'm intrigued! Still need to wait till next month.
    Grace is a phenomenal and transparent YouTuber who actually ascends to the level of journalist most of the time. I don't always agree with her on subjective matters but I respect her journalistic integrity.

  7. #217
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Grace is a phenomenal and transparent YouTuber who actually ascends to the level of journalist most of the time. I don't always agree with her on subjective matters but I respect her journalistic integrity.
    My sides just went into orbit. Grace is a clickbait outrage miner who repeatedly spreads fake news like WW1984 being rewritten to be a Flashpoint esque reboot to the DCEU. When has she ever been right?

  8. #218
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    yeah, I don't respect her as journalist or think she's objective when she needs to be, especially about actors she bashes a lot like Cavill or others. She many times takes it very personal when it shouldn't. She does a lot of clickbait for attention.. But she's not boring..

  9. #219
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    A sudden theory regarding Superman: Man of Tomorrow: I think this is gonna be a Jon-as-Superman movie.



    At the time they released that teaser, no one thought much of it beyond "wow, those buildings look kinda DCAU" given the Red Son teaser at the same time was similarly simple; at most maybe it was hiding character designs. Though don't those look a bit...futurey? And why would they do a Superman origin in the first place that wasn't an adaptation for brownie points, even if it was to be a reboot after Apokolips War, especially when last time they kicked off with a fully-formed League? They're not exactly the types for some inspired, prestige new take. They seemingly planned this further in advance than its contemporaries as well, but have released nothing on it other than that teaser image since July; why play coy about yet another origin? God knows they're not hiding t-shirt Superman.

    Given that secrecy and the oddity of them doing a straightforward origin movie, that this'll apparently drop right around 5G's start, and that the only official description of it is as "a fully original story featuring a young Superman early in his career", I'm thinking this is kicking off a wave of successor hero movies to line up with the new continuity, same as the preexisting shared-universe DC Animated features roughly mirrored the New 52.

    (My backup theory is that this'll be a rough adaptation of American Alien that they're retitling to avoid associations with the source material for Reasons.)
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  10. #220
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    A sudden theory regarding Superman: Man of Tomorrow: I think this is gonna be a Jon-as-Superman movie.

    (My backup theory is that this'll be a rough adaptation of American Alien that they're retitling to avoid associations with the source material for Reasons.)
    I hate both of these ideas, haha! I really hope not, but I suspect you're right about Jon.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Perhaps I'm misusing the term "mustache-twirling," but in this sense I use it to mean a guy who's so laughably evil with no redeeming qualities.
    I agree with this assessment of Regime "Superman". He's ostensibly rooted in real character traits for Superman, but in fact they started at the most hate-able villain imaginable and worked backwards.
    Last edited by Adekis; 02-28-2020 at 02:59 PM.
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  11. #221
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    A sudden theory regarding Superman: Man of Tomorrow: I think this is gonna be a Jon-as-Superman movie.



    At the time they released that teaser, no one thought much of it beyond "wow, those buildings look kinda DCAU" given the Red Son teaser at the same time was similarly simple; at most maybe it was hiding character designs. Though don't those look a bit...futurey? And why would they do a Superman origin in the first place that wasn't an adaptation for brownie points, even if it was to be a reboot after Apokolips War, especially when last time they kicked off with a fully-formed League? They're not exactly the types for some inspired, prestige new take. They seemingly planned this further in advance than its contemporaries as well, but have released nothing on it other than that teaser image since July; why play coy about yet another origin? God knows they're not hiding t-shirt Superman.

    Given that secrecy and the oddity of them doing a straightforward origin movie, that this'll apparently drop right around 5G's start, and that the only official description of it is as "a fully original story featuring a young Superman early in his career", I'm thinking this is kicking off a wave of successor hero movies to line up with the new continuity, same as the preexisting shared-universe DC Animated features roughly mirrored the New 52.

    (My backup theory is that this'll be a rough adaptation of American Alien that they're retitling to avoid associations with the source material for Reasons.)
    They didn't say it was an origin, just that it was early days. And there's no way they'll piss off Jon fans by introducing him as an adult.

  12. #222
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Yeah it won’t be Jon, it will be Clark. These movies barely sell enough to cover the cost of making them, they won’t be taking that kind of risk with them. Also Dispenser, apparently Bleeding Cool is claiming that DC is already starting to back off from 5G. They’re ditching the hard dates for certain and they might end up binning the whole idea in the end.

    A loose adaption of American Alien would be cool, but I think Man of Tomorrow is going to be about Supes already a year or so into his career as Superman. I’m hoping for a loose adaption of Morrison’s Action arc with Brainiac and Metallo myself but we’ll see. At least they’re finally making the aesthetic of Metropolis something other than “boring NYC knockoff”.

  13. #223
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I don't see them jumping to a movie about Jon as Superman with literally no build-up.

  14. #224
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah it won’t be Jon, it will be Clark. These movies barely sell enough to cover the cost of making them, they won’t be taking that kind of risk with them. Also Dispenser, apparently Bleeding Cool is claiming that DC is already starting to back off from 5G. They’re ditching the hard dates for certain and they might end up binning the whole idea in the end.
    Even if that were true - it's not, they've already solicited the miniseries opening 5G, maybe it'll be wrapped up quickly rather than being the new status quo but it is way too late for it to not happen (plus at the same time as that rumor BC's also claiming this is not only indeed the direction DC is taking but in fact they're so committed that that's where the movies are going to, because BC just says things and we all know that well) - this movie went into production a long time ago, as did initial plans for 5G. If they wanted their movies to line up with those comics they were told were forthcoming, the approach they've already taken with their current animated universe, last-minute goings-on wouldn't stop that from being the movie they'd already made.
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  15. #225
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    The premise is making me think this is a fresh to Metropolis Superman just starting out and not one carrying on his father's legacy of protecting Metropolis, but admittedly it is vague enough.

    But, still, if they were going to start developing 5G stuff I think they would have set them up in earlier films.

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