Superman: Red Son and Superman: Man of Tomorrow Animated Feature Films

[Gaius]

Good God, If American alien is the main influence l, I hope they cut off the self-input and the idiotic hipster/party guy stuff. There is relatable and there is inserting yourself to the protagonist.

Yes, one of the things I didn’t care for in AA was Clark came off more an idealized version of how Landis sees himself. Which given the later scandals and allegations is a reason why I never continued the story.

[manwhohaseverything]

Good God, If American alien is the main influence l, I hope they cut off the self-input and the idiotic hipster/party guy stuff. There is relatable and there is inserting yourself to the protagonist.

So, any other portrayal you would add instead of the party-stuff where clark is actually having fun?personally, i would take any portrayal that doesn't show clark being uptight. Because most of the time the character is bland,not swashbuckling hero.

[Vordan]

Good God, If American alien is the main influence l, I hope they cut off the self-input and the idiotic hipster/party guy stuff. There is relatable and there is inserting yourself to the protagonist.

I don’t think he’s going to be having sex with Cheetah in this lol. He still has some cockiness to him when he’s being Superman though.

Also, if it wasn't already obvious, the way the dealt with American Ali-- I mean that one book having multiple artists was that they just picked the one that looked the best for animation.

That answer ended up being Francis Manapul's art. This whole film looks to be based off of his art.

Ahhhhh now I see it. Personally I thought they were trying to copy Janin’s art but that didn’t make sense since Janin wasn’t involved. You’re right this is definitely trying to copy Manapaul. I love that guy’s art so I’m all for it.

American Alien is what DC has been dying for someone to do with Superman for years: “modernize” him in a way that’s not seen as “retro” like how say Morrison did. By that I mean this is the Byrne take where “Clark is who I am, Superman is what I can do”, but Clark is relatable instead of aping Donner, and of course there are ties to Batman which is pretty much mandatory at DC these days.

[Superlad93]

Based on the pictures on the previous pages and the description we've gotten, this movie is totally gonna have it so people just assume the new and mysterious "Superman" is like a random freak of nature or something, but still ultimately human. And Clark's likely going to be totally okay with that because he's likely uncomfortable with that part of his life, and also doesn't know much about.

But Lobo and Parasite fighting seems like it's gonna brew up some xenophobia, and MM's gonna advise Clark on his responsibility as an alien who lives on this planet.

That shot of Clark face looking satisfied in the Superman suit while the wind blows seems to indicate that's a big self acceptance moment.

So basically, Smashes The Klan meets American Alien.

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

So, any other portrayal you would add instead of the party-stuff where clark is actually having fun?personally, i would take any portrayal that doesn't show clark being uptight. Because most of the time the character is bland,not swashbuckling hero.

Clark can have fun. But this was clearly Clark doing things Landis does. Party on yatchs etc. Landis is a rich guy who can't connect to a humble ambringing imo. Plus his Clark comes of as a hipster. Which doesn't connect with the guy who was raised by farmers and learns he is alien.

Birthright had Superman having fun, by petting lions.way more interesting both visually and conceptually.

I have a problem when it comes to AA because it's clearly a reactionary work to general detractuons about Superman in the eye of the public.

Anyway, I really didn't enjoy AA so I am biased.

[Superlad93]

American Alien is what DC has been dying for someone to do with Superman for years: “modernize” him in a way that’s not seen as “retro” like how say Morrison did. By that I mean this is the Byrne take where “Clark is who I am, Superman is what I can do”, but Clark is relatable instead of aping Donner, and of course there are ties to Batman which is pretty much mandatory at DC these days.

Excactly.

And if Max Landis wasn't Max Landis, he'd be in the conversation for most influential Superman writer of the modern age, and on a long enough timeline after the fact, ever. And I say that with no hesitation what so ever. Like Dispenser of Truth said, American Alien would be on the required reading list. It's wild, but you can see it, right?

Some people don't wanna hear it, but it's for All Star what Year One is for DKR. A modernizing foundational story that's primed for nothing but adaption and reference. But I mean, based on this movie even being a thing at all, I imagine they're gonna still try an push this vibe. Like you said, they've been dying for something like this for literal decades.

[Vordan]

Excactly.

And if Max Landis wasn't Max Landis, he'd be in the conversation for most influential Superman writer of the modern age, and on a long enough timeline after the fact, ever. And I say that with no hesitation what so ever. Like Dispenser of Truth said, American Alien would be on the required reading list. It's wild, but you can see it, right?

Some people don't wanna hear it, but it's for All Star what Year One is for DKR. A modernizing foundational story that's primed for nothing but adaption and reference. But I mean, based on this movie even being a thing at all, I imagine they're gonna still try an push this vibe. Like you said, they've been dying for something like this for literal decades.

I could totally see it having become the canon origin. People liked it AND it did what DC wanted so it was a double win. We would’ve gotten a ton of spinoffs I’m sure, beyond just Agent of Batman. I’m sure DC was cursing Landis out behind the scenes for giving them what they always wanted, and then tainting it for them by being a harasser. That they’re still willing to use it for an animated origin over Birthright, Superman & the Men of Steel, and Secret Origin says a lot about how much they valued Landis’ take.

[Superlad93]

I could totally see it having become the canon origin. People liked it AND it did what DC wanted so it was a double win. We would’ve gotten a ton of spinoffs I’m sure, beyond just Agent of Batman. I’m sure DC was cursing Landis out behind the scenes for giving them what they always wanted, and then tainting it for them by being a harasser. That they’re still willing to use it for an animated origin over Birthright, Superman & the Men of Steel, and Secret Origin says a lot about how much they valued Landis’ take.

I bet they would've eventually talked him into doing main continuity work. He already revamped Atomic Skull during the New 52, and shortly after that he was in fact tapped to work alongside Pak on the revamp of Death of Superman, but it fell through.

I recall DiDio making it so War of Jokes and Riddles got changed from being its own thing like it was pitched, and instead went into the main book. DiDio would've probably moved a mountain to get on the main books before everything went down.

[Superlad93]

Also betting that the imagine of a young Clark in the car is going to be at the start of the film, and it's going to basically be the scene with Pa in the car after the drive-in movie or something similar. Basically little Clark ran into a situation that reminded him that he was an alien (like in the comic). But instead of Pa helping Clark learn to fly, he likely gives him the glasses.

But the glasses, though an oasis of normalcy for young Clark, seem to be framed as somewhat of a crutch or safety blanket. This gives thematic significance to his final Superman suit with the trunks and no goggles. Totally a story of self acceptance.

Then we likely get this as a transition forward into the present from there skipping over the rest of his childhood.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark can have fun. But this was clearly Clark doing things Landis does. Party on yatchs etc. Landis is a rich guy who can't connect to a humble ambringing imo. Plus his Clark comes of as a hipster. Which doesn't connect with the guy who was raised by farmers and learns he is alien.

Birthright had Superman having fun, by petting lions.way more interesting both visually and conceptually.

I have a problem when it comes to AA because it's clearly a reactionary work to general detractuons about Superman in the eye of the public.

Anyway, I really didn't enjoy AA so I am biased.

You didn't answer my question. If you take a part out that shows Clark having fun then something else needs to be put in it's place. Really? Petting lions? That isn't Clark having fun, that's superman having fun. There is a difference. Clark kent is the cultural american of the 21st century with friends, love life, a job, a boss and a family. What does he do for fun?it can be anything like him playing darksouls or something.if partying is bad.American alien wasn't about Superman. It was about clark kent with cameos from kal el, same as postcrisis.

[Vordan]

I bet they would've eventually talked him into doing main continuity work. He already revamped Atomic Skull during the New 52, and shortly after that he was in fact tapped to work alongside Pak on the revamp of Death of Superman, but it fell through.

I recall DiDio making it so War of Jokes and Riddles got changed from being its own thing like it was pitched, and instead went into the main book. DiDio would've probably moved a mountain to get on the main books before everything went down.

I totally agree. He would’ve ended up on the main books sooner or later if his actions hadn’t been outed. Can’t lie, I’m curious to see what his and Pak’s Death of Superman revamp would’ve been like. Probably better than the 90s version honestly. Still everything he did would’ve been tainted anyway so it’s for the best it didn’t happen.

Also betting that the imagine of a young Clark in the car is going to be at the start of the film, and it's going to basically be the scene with Pa in the car after the drive-in movie or something similar. Basically little Clark ran into a situation that reminded him that he was an alien (like in the comic). But instead of Pa helping Clark learn to fly, he likely gives him the glasses.

But the glasses, though an oasis of normalcy for young Clark, seem to be framed as somewhat of a crutch or safety blanket. This gives thematic significance to his final Superman suit with the trunks and no goggles. Totally a story of self acceptance.

Then we likely get this as a transition forward into the present from there skipping over the rest of his childhood.

That’s a very insightful reading and I hope you are correct.

[Superlad93]

Can’t lie, I’m curious to see what his and Pak’s Death of Superman revamp would’ve been like. Probably better than the 90s version honestly. Still everything he did would’ve been tainted anyway so it’s for the best it didn’t happen.

Totally agree. You watched the video of him basically reenacting his version without Pak's input, right? There are some things about it that I question, but the main idea is rock solid in my opinion. I think Pak would've smoothed out the edges. But above all, can you even imagine how great it would've been to get a *weekly* (that what it was supposed to be) Death and Return revamp by him and Pak?

But it seems that Pak eventually did end up using parts of the idea in the aftermath for Doomed. After Clark got back from space he questioned coming back as Superman for a while, him having to recover, and Doomsday's death aura. I'd have easily traded in Doomed for a Landis/Pak DOS weekly in a heartbeat (at the time of course).

That’s a very insightful reading and I hope you are correct.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Hope it turns out close too.

[Frontier]

One obvious difference with AA is Mercy being there with Lex and looking straight out of the DCAU. Considering that one scene of them together I wonder if we're going to see Clark and Lex work together in this more then they did in the comic.

Perry also looks like his DCAU self aged 10 years.

He’s a total dork in the preview but not in a retro way like say Johns Secret Origin. It’s not that he’s some dumb hick who can’t understand the big city, but that he’s kind of a socially awkward nerd who is very shy and is still trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life. He talks smack to Lobo which I found to be pretty funny honestly.

I mean, that's how I read him in Secret Origin, but that's just me...

Yes yes yes. That sounds where its at for me.

Oh, also glad that the Kents don't look perpetually 80 years old. They're obviously on the other side of the hill but Martha is slim and fit.

They look older then I was expecting them to. Or at least older then I remember them looking in American Alien.

I liked it better in motion, it’s not Archer-esque when they’re moving at least not to me. I wonder if DC does do another animated universe, will they mandate a unified style? To be honest I would prefer if they had separate styles for individual movies and a unified style for a JL movie. Really though I just want this and TLH to be good and to get more non Batman/Superman movies. It sucks we never got a solo Flash movie because the DCAMU Barry VA was actually great imo.

I might not mind this art style for Long Halloween but people would obviously complain if it doesn't look like Tim Sale's art.

I agree that Christpher Gorham was a pretty great Barry. I would've loved to have seen him get a more meatier role in a solo film. He's probably the one DCAMU VA I'll miss the most.

Anyways, I'm personally a very big fan of the art/animation style. It looks like it's made to be fluid. Very minimal lines. That's the most Superman ass Superman that I've seen in animation since the DCAU, and I love it.

That scene of him flying in the Reborn suit at the end of Reign looked pretty peak Superman to me (unless it's disqualified for not having the trunks?)

Also, if it wasn't already obvious, the way the dealt with American Ali-- I mean that one book having multiple artists was that they just picked the one that looked the best for animation.

That answer ended up being Francis Manapul's art. This whole film looks to be based off of his art.

Ahhhhh now I see it. Personally I thought they were trying to copy Janin’s art but that didn’t make sense since Janin wasn’t involved. You’re right this is definitely trying to copy Manapaul. I love that guy’s art so I’m all for it.

Hmm...I can kinda see it. I'm not sure if it was a direct inspiration but I guess it could be construed as Manapul's artstyle animated.

[BBally]

Also, if it wasn't already obvious, the way the dealt with American Ali-- I mean that one book having multiple artists was that they just picked the one that looked the best for animation.

That answer ended up being Francis Manapul's art. This whole film looks to be based off of his art.

I can totally see his art influencing this film's look, though when I first saw the images of the design this movie was going for, it gave me more of a retro-Anime vibe like something from the late 70s, 80s to the early 90s, which I think actually works well with a character like Superman.

[Frontier]

I can totally see his art influencing this film's look, though when I first saw the images of the design this movie was going for, it gave me more of a retro-Anime vibe like something from the late 70s, 80s to the early 90s, which I think actually works well with a character like Superman.

Yeah, I see a kind of modernized Fleischer aesthetic if that makes any sense.