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  1. #46

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    We have vastly more high school Peter stories in 616 since the 90s with Busiek’s work and Slott’s Learning to Crawl then in the actual 60s or any time before. Peter graduating high school didn’t kill high school Peter.

    I mean the high school Peter is a 90s product and not inherent to the foundation of the character at all. Peter was never created and intended to be in high school by either Ditko or Lee.

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Yup and he can be these things with a Ph.D. too, well except for a full professor in many localities. His constant inability to succeed at earning his doctorate is an old worn-out trope at this point which should be retired.
    The specific argument was that new doors are opened if a particular narrative door is closed, not that you can have a slightly more limited but adequate selection of stories with a more mature academically accomplished Peter Parker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    A story having a definite conclusion and ending does not by itself halt or prevent more stories from being told of that world, that society, and characters.
    No one's arguing that you can't have spinoffs, but why is that an adequate trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    LOL, c'mon Mets this question is so a diversionary tactic which is frankly beneath you. No one wants Spider-Man comics to end rather many (dare I say most) people want to see our favorite hero in new situations. Give us one good reason why a thirtysomething Peter Parker would doom the series. And remember Miles can easily fill the young(er) spidey role. Let's see Peter finally grow up some not die or become a broken-down old man but rather a fully realized adult. The story possibilities are endless more than enough for another fifty years.

    Edit - I'm not trying to be combative rather I just think with Miles able to fill the young struggling spidey slot it is the perfect opportunity for Peter's character to fill a new role.
    It's not a diversionary tactic. It was relevant to a chain of posts.
    "

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    So I should never expect an ending of 616 Spiderman
    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Indeed, friend

    Edit - Or any lasting progression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    This is where manga beats comics for me
    This does suggest a preference that the story come to an end.

    Manga stories tend not to last for 50+ years, so it's not that they would bring Spider-Man's story to a close now, but that it would have happened at some point decades ago.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    ...This does suggest a preference that the story come to an end.

    Manga stories tend not to last for 50+ years, so it's not that they would bring Spider-Man's story to a close now, but that it would have happened at some point decades ago.
    *cough* Dragon Ball which is still going strong after decades *cough*

    Also, no it doesn't. It indicates a preference to see something new with the character not to see his story end rather move into a different stage which can be milked for decades to come.
    Last edited by Celgress; 07-21-2019 at 01:59 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    The specific argument was that new doors are opened if a particular narrative door is closed, not that you can have a slightly more limited but adequate selection of stories with a more mature academically accomplished Peter Parker.....
    Okay here goes. He can be a father, husband, and/or homeowner, for example, things he can't be now (according to the youth mandate).
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Okay here goes. He can be a father, husband, and/or homeowner, for example, things he can't be now (according to the youth mandate).
    That's got nothing to do with getting a PHD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    *cough* Dragon Ball which is still going strong after decades *cough*

    Also, no it doesn't. It indicates a preference to see something new with the character not to see his story end rather move into a different stage which can be milked for decades to come.
    Dragon Ball went on a generation-long hiatus.

    From my understanding, Dragonball Super also ignores some of the last developments of the series, and that it generally takes an illusion of change approach with characters from where they were after the end of the Buu saga.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    That's got nothing to do with getting a PHD.



    Dragon Ball went on a generation-long hiatus.

    From my understanding, Dragonball Super also ignores some of the last developments of the series, and that it generally takes an illusion of change approach with characters from where they were after the end of the Buu saga.
    Not directly, but it does in so far as it moves the character along. I am advocating a thirtysomething Spidey rather than a Ph.D. Spidey. If, however, Marvel wants Peter to continue with pursuing his doctorate then they should pull the trigger this time.

    Not exactly there were semi-canon Dragon ball movies ideas from which are now being incorporated into the main continuity (see Broly) and the Magna never completely ceased being published in Japan.

    Super ignored GT which was not created by the original creator (who is still alive). That said, there are rumblings elements of GT will be inserted into the next series.

    Edit - While I see your points and appreciate them I simply think it is time for a change. Everyone likes different things while I'm a tad bored by this version of Pete if you like him that's cool. I hope if OMD is ever undone we'll get to experience the era I've outlined in previous posts, 'nough said (by me) on this subject.
    Last edited by Celgress; 07-21-2019 at 07:04 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #52
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Would you be happier if the Spider-Man comics ended decades ago?
    Naw but how about 60 years from now?
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  8. #53
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Not directly, but it does in so far as it moves the character along. I am advocating a thirtysomething Spidey rather than a Ph.D. Spidey. If, however, Marvel wants Peter to continue with pursuing his doctorate then they should pull the trigger this time.

    Not exactly there were semi-canon Dragon ball movies ideas from which are now being incorporated into the main continuity (see Broly) and the Magna never completely ceased being published in Japan.

    Super ignored GT which was not created by the original creator (who is still alive). That said, there are rumblings elements of GT will be inserted into the next series.

    Edit - While I see your points and appreciate them I simply think it is time for a change. Everyone likes different things while I'm a tad bored by this version of Pete if you like him that's cool. I hope if OMD is ever undone we'll get to experience the era I've outlined in previous posts, 'nough said (by me) on this subject.
    GT isn’t canon also Super itself has it safe in which the end of Buu Saga to the end of Z had all that time so they could add story instead of rebooting itself to a certain point
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    GT isn’t canon also Super itself has it safe in which the end of Buu Saga to the end of Z had all that time so they could add story instead of rebooting itself to a certain point
    Indeed it isn't for the reason I pointed out (Akira Toriyama's lack of involvement), that and well it kind of sucked. Don't get me wrong certain concepts like the Tuffles and Baby were interesting but the execution left a lot to be desired.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Indeed it isn't for the reason I pointed out (Akira Toriyama's lack of involvement), that and well it kind of sucked. Don't get me wrong certain concepts like the Tuffles and Baby were interesting but the execution left a lot to be desired.
    I really want to debate this but this is a Spider-Man thread.

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I really want to debate this but this is a Spider-Man thread.
    Yeah, we probably shouldn't drag this thread further off course.

    Although I am curious to what do you objection in my original statement? Don't worry I won't give a detailed reply I just want to know.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Yeah, we probably shouldn't drag this thread further off course.

    Although I am curious to what do you objection in my original statement? Don't worry I won't give a detailed reply I just want to know.
    I feel like the weaker parts of GT can be found in the weaker parts of Z, and that most of the preference of Z over GT comes from nostalgia.

    That being said, most people watch Dragon Ball for the fights so even though I think that most of the post-Saiyan arc fights are kinda lackluster, it’s not surprising that’s what most people look forward to in the sequels.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I feel like the weaker parts of GT can be found in the weaker parts of Z, and that most of the preference of Z over GT comes from nostalgia.

    That being said, most people watch Dragon Ball for the fights so even though I think that most of the post-Saiyan arc fights are kinda lackluster, it’s not surprising that’s what most people look forward to in the sequels.
    I think Z is superior due to the introduction of concepts like the Saiyan Race, Super Saiyan Transformations, Piccolo's Redemption Arc, Gohan's Coming of Age Arc, Vegeta, Frieza, the Kais, exact. But to each their own as I always say.
    Last edited by Celgress; 07-22-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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  14. #59
    Incredible Member Seto Kaiba's Avatar
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    A Spider-Man with a doctorate. As much as I love the idea of Peter being more than a broke student, we already have that with Otto. Still, they're not the exact same so it doesn't mean they'd be telling the same stories. Especially if they go into different fields. One of the things Otto is always harping on (Just again recently) is that Peter SHOULD be more successful. Even if it's not a billionaire CEO, then at least something. I get it. Spider-Man is supposed to be the "everyday man". He's also REALLY fucking intelligent. It would be nice if Marvel paid more attention to that fact.

  15. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seto Kaiba View Post
    A Spider-Man with a doctorate. As much as I love the idea of Peter being more than a broke student, we already have that with Otto.
    Eventually Dr. Octopus is going to come back and all this superior nonsense will come to an end. Superior Spider-Man wasn't intended to be, nor expected to be, nor will become a permanent legacy fixture. So by then you won't have Otto.

    Especially if they go into different fields. One of the things Otto is always harping on (Just again recently) is that Peter SHOULD be more successful.
    I'd be worried if Peter banked so much on the word of a terrorist.

    Spider-Man is supposed to be the "everyday man". He's also REALLY fucking intelligent. It would be nice if Marvel paid more attention to that fact.
    This falls under the logical fallacy of "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich" which is an unfortunate consequence of Slott's run since his entire run operates under that assumption.

    The fact is being smart doesn't correlate to being functional, effective, and so on.

    It also has nothing to do with Peter getting a doctorate. Peter graduated high school and got a scholarship while being Spider-Man, ditto college. And so on. The reason he's not gotten a doctorate is because of comic book time not because he's poor or slow or anything like that. For someone in his mid-20s, it's not unusual in the least for Peter to not have his doctorate. In the case of Otto making that remark, it's either because Slott is making a to-do or that it's part of Otto's usual arrogance and contempt, hypocrisy and so on.

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