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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    sigh.. we'll see.. but another "plagiarism" excuse (Jonah's photo betrayal from years ago and now the accidental 'outing' at ESU) and I'm out the window.
    Peter DID plagiarize his thesis. Look I know a lot of people see that as enforcing the status-quo but that wasn't Spencer's fault or anyone's. IT was Slott's.

    Slott was totally cynical in his entire run about Peter "progressing". It was built on crap. It was completely unearned every step of the way. He got the job at Horizon because Aunt May married Jameson Sr. who pulled strings and got Peter to work at Horizon, Ock created the company in his body, and so on and so forth. The reason Slott did that was that he wanted things both ways. He wanted Peter to taste some amount of advancement, mostly so that Slott didn't write Peter as a traditional struggling hero since he had no interest doing that...but he also wanted Peter to be young and dumb, and so he created Peter "Failing upwards" in that run.

    And I don't think Peter working at Horizon was really interesting. It basically devolved into an excuse about big dumb props. The same with Worldwide.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I think there’s a bit of nostalgia in there because I honestly don’t see any of the maturity.
    If you have specifics, I might have something to say. I re-read JMS' run from time to time, as I do earlier stuff. It's not based on memories and so on.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 07-21-2019 at 12:57 AM.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Jekyll's Avatar
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    JMS Peter has always been my favorite older/mature version of the character, in particular his stint as a public school teacher. I hope we get to see more of that at some point.
    AKA FlashFreak
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    MARVEL: Daredevil, Spider-Man (Peter Parker), Iron Fist, Doctor Strange, & Ant-Man (Scott Lang).

    Current Pulls: Daredevil, Amazing Spider-Man, Venom, Immortal Hulk, Guardians of The Galaxy, Absolute Carnage, Justice League, & Shazam!

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    JMS Peter has always been my favorite older/mature version of the character, in particular his stint as a public school teacher. I hope we get to see more of that at some point.
    It's always been my personal feeling that the marriage, contrary to claims by creators that it limited options, actually gave writers more options than before.

    The combination of marriage plus comic time means that writers have options on how to show Peter. You can either write them as a young married couple who are still in their early years and making adjustments and so on...or you can portray them as being older with more experience. Take a story like Identity Crisis, which is the best Post-Clone Saga story. There Peter and MJ come across as being very young and youtful, and more or less the emotions of the Clone Saga (the miscarriage/kidnapping and so on which was never addressed) isn't mentioned there and they come off as a little goofy. Especially that great scene where Peter and MJ laugh about how he's gonna troll Norman...which again makes no sense if you accept that Norman kidnapped/killed their unborn kid (which is obviously ignored/downplayed there).

    On the other hand, JMS wrote Peter and MJ as being somewhat older and more mature, or at the very least young people who have endured so much more than people at their age should have and that's kind of made them wiser than their years, which to me feels valid, and also it was just after 9/11 and speaking as someone who was young then, I know that 9/11 and the experience of that did make people feel older overnight. And I always felt that JMS was the only writer in Marvel who was dealing with the post-9/11 world. Like that scene in ASM #502-503 when Peter is dropping MJ off at the airport when she goes to LA. That scene shows Peter dropping her off at the airport entrance. That's basically a post-9/11 moment because overnight airports around the world decided to control airports by insisting only passengers can pass through the gates. It also alluded to the Conway/Andru scene in ASM#143 where MJ went inside the airport, which is now basically a Pre 9/11 moment.

    So I feel the marriage provided more options and removing the marriage means that Marvel writers in a position to justify it have to keep insisting and showing Peter as someone who must not grow up. Peter not growing up now has to be an essential part of his character in a way it never was before. So that lends an air of frustration to post-OMD Spider-Man. It's no longer possible for 616 Peter to be a complex character. Certainly Slott's Peter is far and away the most simplistic version of that character. I mean take No One Dies. This big story that goes into Peter's psyche and the main beat that Slott explores there is "bad guys seem to resurrect more than good people do", that is the childish logic of comic books deployed in service of a major character study with nothing meaningful to say about any real life experiences. And the big thing that Slott goes is "When I'm around, no one dies" which literally makes no sense and goes nowhere.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    It closes one chapter but opens another heck it can open many different chapters in Peter's life: professor/teacher, inventor, full-time employee, company owner, adventurer/researcher, exact. The only limit is the imagination of the writer or writers.
    What chapter is opened? Peter can be an inventor, professor, or researcher without a PHD.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    This is where manga beats comics for me
    Would you be happier if the Spider-Man comics ended decades ago?

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    What chapter is opened? Peter can be an inventor, professor, or researcher without a PHD.
    Yup and he can be these things with a Ph.D. too, well except for a full professor in many localities. His constant inability to succeed at earning his doctorate is an old worn-out trope at this point which should be retired.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Would you be happier if the Spider-Man comics ended decades ago?
    A story having a definite conclusion and ending does not by itself halt or prevent more stories from being told of that world, that society, and characters.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Would you be happier if the Spider-Man comics ended decades ago?
    LOL, c'mon Mets this question is so a diversionary tactic which is frankly beneath you. No one wants Spider-Man comics to end rather many (dare I say most) people want to see our favorite hero in new situations. Give us one good reason why a thirtysomething Peter Parker would doom the series. And remember Miles can easily fill the young(er) spidey role. Let's see Peter finally grow up some not die or become a broken-down old man but rather a fully realized adult. The story possibilities are endless more than enough for another fifty years.

    Edit - I'm not trying to be combative rather I just think with Miles able to fill the young struggling spidey slot it is the perfect opportunity for Peter's character to fill a new role.
    Last edited by Celgress; 07-21-2019 at 07:22 AM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    If you have specifics, I might have something to say. I re-read JMS' run from time to time, as I do earlier stuff. It's not based on memories and so on.
    That’s what I mean by nostalgia. Peter has always had help to get him where he is regardless of what he’s doing. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s just how things are sometimes.

    While his job teaching is his own merits, him keeping his job was a lot in part of his relationship with Ezekiel. When he lost his home, he could move in with Stark. When he’s dealing with the consequences of his past actions, a lot of it feels like going through the motions rather than him genuinely being invested in what’s going on. All things that are honestly normal for Peter.

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    That’s what I mean by nostalgia. Peter has always had help to get him where he is regardless of what he’s doing. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s just how things are sometimes.

    While his job teaching is his own merits, him keeping his job was a lot in part of his relationship with Ezekiel. When he lost his home, he could move in with Stark. When he’s dealing with the consequences of his past actions, a lot of it feels like going through the motions rather than him genuinely being invested in what’s going on. All things that are honestly normal for Peter.
    And what does this have to do with what we are discussing?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    And what does this have to do with what we are discussing?
    We’re discussing Peter’s maturity level.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    We’re discussing Peter’s maturity level.
    Are you saying that JMS Peter is as immature as Slott?

    Getting some help isn’t the same as getting work entirely through other people’s agency and not your own. In Slott’s run Peter didn’t seem to have any agency at all.

    And in any case Peter held on to that job long after his association with Sims ended. Like New Avengers 2 has Cap show up at Peter’s school and point out how he showed up at work next day even after the Raft prison attack.

  13. #43
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    A story having a definite conclusion and ending does not by itself halt or prevent more stories from being told of that world, that society, and characters.
    Exactly. We had "Untold Tales of Spider-Man." You can do that again and have plenty of stories go to the past and, or, explore different futures. There's no real concrete reason why Peter and his world should not have a definitive ending.
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  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Exactly. We had "Untold Tales of Spider-Man." You can do that again and have plenty of stories go to the past and, or, explore different futures. There's no real concrete reason why Peter and his world should not have a definitive ending.
    True, although if some even object to the "definitive ending" idea why not explore other eras of Peter's life? We've had fifty years of teens to twenties finding his way Peter lets advance things a few years so we can see the adventures of thirtysomething better adjusted Peter. Plus, as you pointed out, writers can revisit "teens to twenties finding his way Peter" any time they wish via the untold tales format. The character need not stagnate.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  15. #45
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    True, although if some even object to the "definitive ending" idea why not explore other eras of Peter's life? We've had fifty years of teens to twenties finding his way Peter lets advance things a few years so we can see the adventures of thirtysomething better adjusted Peter. Plus, as you pointed out, writers can revisit "teens to twenties finding his way Peter" any time they wish via the untold tales format. The character need not stagnate.
    Exactly. Right there with you.
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