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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEchidna View Post
    The more I think about it, Peter the "eternal Grad Student" makes sense since Marvel has been trying to put the genie back in the bottle concerning Peter's age since the end of JMS' run.
    Agreed.

    They re-established Peter and Mary Jane as students in 1997-1998, I wonder why they backed away from it, why it took this long. They clearly wanted a younger Spider-Man, and establishing him as a student is the best way of achieving that.

  2. #62
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seto Kaiba View Post
    A Spider-Man with a doctorate. As much as I love the idea of Peter being more than a broke student, we already have that with Otto. Still, they're not the exact same so it doesn't mean they'd be telling the same stories. Especially if they go into different fields. One of the things Otto is always harping on (Just again recently) is that Peter SHOULD be more successful. Even if it's not a billionaire CEO, then at least something. I get it. Spider-Man is supposed to be the "everyday man". He's also REALLY fucking intelligent. It would be nice if Marvel paid more attention to that fact.
    what does that even mean ever since I join these forum I keep seeing that statement is that a legit thing or a fanterm for us Spider-Man fans? I ask that question a couple of days ago but got no answer
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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    what does that even mean ever since I join these forum I keep seeing that statement is that a legit thing or a fanterm for us Spider-Man fans? I ask that question a couple of days ago but got no answer
    usually a character devoid of any extraordinary elements so that the audience can project themselves onto. amazing things may happen to or around the character but s/he himself isn’t amazing.

    so even though peter parker is a polymath, with a cut body and razor sharp wit and athletic ability beyond any olympian able to bench press a car...the comics balance that against the fact he has to eat wheat cakes to create an everyman

    see spurrier’s forgetmenot
    Last edited by boots; 07-22-2019 at 07:31 PM.
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  4. #64
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    what if someone called peter a normie

  5. #65
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    I feel like this fanbase is slowly using its charm when this topic gets people riled up.
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  6. #66
    Incredible Member Seto Kaiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Eventually Dr. Octopus is going to come back and all this superior nonsense will come to an end. Superior Spider-Man wasn't intended to be, nor expected to be, nor will become a permanent legacy fixture. So by then you won't have Otto.
    Given how popular the book is and the concept in general, I don't see him going anywhere anytime soon. Seriously, if someone like Kaine can go from unrepentant murderer to web slinging hero, I don't see why Otto can't. But that's probably another topic entirely.

    I'd be worried if Peter banked so much on the word of a terrorist
    It's not just Otto. I believe Hank Pym said the same thing.


    This falls under the logical fallacy of "If you're so smart, why aren't you rich" which is an unfortunate consequence of Slott's run since his entire run operates under that assumption.

    The fact is being smart doesn't correlate to being functional, effective, and so on.

    It also has nothing to do with Peter getting a doctorate. Peter graduated high school and got a scholarship while being Spider-Man, ditto college. And so on. The reason he's not gotten a doctorate is because of comic book time not because he's poor or slow or anything like that. For someone in his mid-20s, it's not unusual in the least for Peter to not have his doctorate. In the case of Otto making that remark, it's either because Slott is making a to-do or that it's part of Otto's usual arrogance and contempt, hypocrisy and so on.
    It's more of a "Oh hey look! Peter Parker is actually showing some semblance of being successful! Lets dial it back!". It's not even about the money. It's about the respect and recognition. I'm not saying he should be considered the level of Reed Richards. But he has a ton of impressive intelligence feats under his belt. From his inventions at Horizon, to making his own webbing and webshooters, to overriding the overrides of the Iron Spider suit. You say it's not unusual for him to have his doctorate in his mid 20s (He's late 20s early thirties I thought), but the point is that he's intelligent enough so that he COULD. Marvel kinda wants to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to him. "Oh he's the everyday man, but he's smart enough to impress even some of the greatest minds in Marvel. When they're not considering him an idiot of course."

    It's why I liked Slott's run. For all it's faults, it showed us what Peter could do if he actually applied himself.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seto Kaiba View Post
    Seriously, if someone like Kaine can go from unrepentant murderer to web slinging hero, I don't see why Otto can't. But that's probably another topic entirely.
    Kaine was created as a clone and a throwaway character. That's not comparable to Dr. Octopus, who was envisioned by Lee and Ditko as a villain without redeeming virtues and was portrayed that way consistently until the 90s by all writers/artists who followed that.

    It's not just Otto. I believe Hank Pym said the same thing.
    The opinion of a terrorist, and "Creator-of-Ultron" and general all-purpose f--k up Avenger then.

    You say it's not unusual for him to have his doctorate in his mid 20s (He's late 20s early thirties I thought),
    He's mid-20s as established in Spencer's run. None of the dates in Slott's run matters anymore.

    ...but the point is that he's intelligent enough so that he COULD.
    The reality isn't intelligence. It's about time and its about editorial. No one doubts Peter can get his doctorate. The thing is we shouldn't confuse an enforced feature by editorial (Peter not allowed to be older than mid-20s) with a character flaw or bug. In comics you always need to balance Watsonian and Doylist reasons all the time. A doctorate requires a dissertation with citations and references. It needs Peter to read a lot of books, and so on. As a scientist, it requires him to do original research (and that's why plagiarizing a doctorate is a really low thing to do because it actively s--ts on that concept and insults other students who do the grind). Take Reed Richards. We see Reed as a fully achieved scientist in the mid-30s and so on when he becomes a superhero. The part of his life when he was college and studying is removed. In Peter's case, he's stuck in that world.

    And yeah, getting a doctorate doesn't have anything to do with intelligence and so on. I mean Dr. Doom didn't complete his doctorate (that "Dr" is something Victor gave himself in one of his first acts as dictator of Latveria) and Doom turned out all right. I mean he's one of the two (along with Reed) most intelligent people in the multiverse.

  8. #68
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Kaine was created as a clone and a throwaway character. That's not comparable to Dr. Octopus, who was envisioned by Lee and Ditko as a villain without redeeming virtues and was portrayed that way consistently until the 90s by all writers/artists who followed that.



    The opinion of a terrorist, and "Creator-of-Ultron" and general all-purpose f--k up Avenger then.



    He's mid-20s as established in Spencer's run. None of the dates in Slott's run matters anymore.



    The reality isn't intelligence. It's about time and its about editorial. No one doubts Peter can get his doctorate. The thing is we shouldn't confuse an enforced feature by editorial (Peter not allowed to be older than mid-20s) with a character flaw or bug. In comics you always need to balance Watsonian and Doylist reasons all the time. A doctorate requires a dissertation with citations and references. It needs Peter to read a lot of books, and so on. As a scientist, it requires him to do original research (and that's why plagiarizing a doctorate is a really low thing to do because it actively s--ts on that concept and insults other students who do the grind). Take Reed Richards. We see Reed as a fully achieved scientist in the mid-30s and so on when he becomes a superhero. The part of his life when he was college and studying is removed. In Peter's case, he's stuck in that world.

    And yeah, getting a doctorate doesn't have anything to do with intelligence and so on. I mean Dr. Doom didn't complete his doctorate (that "Dr" is something Victor gave himself in one of his first acts as dictator of Latveria) and Doom turned out all right. I mean he's one of the two (along with Reed) most intelligent people in the multiverse.
    Since when? and based on Slott run when Peter came back from Otto taking over his body [Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 3) #1 2014] its been 13 years since he was Spider-Man so really he is 28 years old at least. Also in Immortal Hulk last issue they talked about how the hulk has been around for 14 years and I considered their superhero careers to start around the same time unless stated otherwise so basically Peter is in his late 20s going to 30 and still havent moved on in his personal life
    Last edited by Jman27; 07-23-2019 at 12:17 PM.
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Since when?
    Nick Spencer's TASM #14 v. 5.

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01...-to-mary-jane/

    ...and based on Slott run
    Dates are retconned all the time. Hickman's run alluded to stuff across a big span of time, which is now compressed. Claremont himself pointed this out when he used precise dates when he wrote the dark phoenix saga which all fell by the wayside later on.

    when Peter came back from Otto taking over his body [Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 3) #1 2014] its been 13 years since he was Spider-Man so really he is 28 years old at least.
    Early Twenties is between 20-23, Mid-Twenties is between 23-27, Late-Twenties, is 27-29.

    So no Peter is not 28 years old. And that 13 years stuff is now retconned. I think Slott chose 13 because of its connotations of bad luck and so on. It falls in the pattern of his cheap symbolism and bad jokes.

    Also in Immortal Hulk last issue they talked about how the hulk has been around for 14 years
    Marvel's official barometer is that Comic Book Time begins with Fantastic Four #1. 14 years have passed since FF#1. And that's all will ever pass in the MU. The 14 years of the FF is the timeline for the entire MU and all the other titles overlap in that. Since Johnny Storm, youngest of the four, is slightly older than Peter (about 4-5 years, being that he was an established hero and collegeman when Peter was in high school), that means that 10 years have passed at the very least in Spider-Man continuity, and that's all will ever pass. ASM#1 came out in 1963. Fantastic Four came out in 1961. So a two year gap exists in real-world, but you can stretch that out to 4 easily in comic book math.

    In comic book time, older stories will always have a bigger share of that pie than newer stories. Furthermore thanks to the retcon of OMD/OMIT you now have a cut-off point. Everything before OMD took place say in 8 of those 10 years, while everything after that will be compressed in two years. So Slott's run which lasted real-time 10 years will be compressed into 1 year at most.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 07-23-2019 at 12:36 PM.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    I dont like retcons at all makes it seem like writers just disregard their predecessor work on the series but I guess the difference between late 20s and mid 20s isn’t too bad but I have no idea how I will fell if the next time his age is revealed and it says he is in his early 20s
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  11. #71
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Nick Spencer's TASM #14 v. 5.

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01...-to-mary-jane/



    Dates are retconned all the time. Hickman's run alluded to stuff across a big span of time, which is now compressed. Claremont himself pointed this out when he used precise dates when he wrote the dark phoenix saga which all fell by the wayside later on.



    Early Twenties is between 20-23, Mid-Twenties is between 23-27, Late-Twenties, is 27-29.

    So no Peter is not 28 years old. And that 13 years stuff is now retconned. I think Slott chose 13 because of its connotations of bad luck and so on. It falls in the pattern of his cheap symbolism and bad jokes.



    Marvel's official barometer is that Comic Book Time begins with Fantastic Four #1. 14 years have passed since FF#1. And that's all will ever pass in the MU. The 14 years of the FF is the timeline for the entire MU and all the other titles overlap in that. Since Johnny Storm, youngest of the four, is slightly older than Peter (about 4-5 years, being that he was an established hero and collegeman when Peter was in high school), that means that 10 years have passed at the very least in Spider-Man continuity, and that's all will ever pass. ASM#1 came out in 1963. Fantastic Four came out in 1961. So a two year gap exists in real-world, but you can stretch that out to 4 easily in comic book math.

    In comic book time, older stories will always have a bigger share of that pie than newer stories. Furthermore thanks to the retcon of OMD/OMIT you now have a cut-off point. Everything before OMD took place say in 8 of those 10 years, while everything after that will be compressed in two years. So Slott's run which lasted real-time 10 years will be compressed into 1 year at most.
    I don't know about all that, man. 13 years sounds a lot more plausible than 10 for me. Only because all that history gets condensed so much. For me, the more time that's passed allows me to suspend my disbelief more. But I'm in the camp that suggests 13 years as opposed to 10. I definitely saw what Spencer was doing (and MJ said mid-20s, which could be 27), but yeah.
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  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I don't know about all that, man. 13 years sounds a lot more plausible than 10 for me. Only because all that history gets condensed so much. For me, the more time that's passed allows me to suspend my disbelief more. But I'm in the camp that suggests 13 years as opposed to 10. I definitely saw what Spencer was doing (and MJ said mid-20s, which could be 27), but yeah.
    As am I for the reason you've outlined.
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  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    usually a character devoid of any extraordinary elements so that the audience can project themselves onto. amazing things may happen to or around the character but s/he himself isn’t amazing.

    so even though peter parker is a polymath, with a cut body and razor sharp wit and athletic ability beyond any olympian able to bench press a car...the comics balance that against the fact he has to eat wheat cakes to create an everyman

    see spurrier’s forgetmenot
    I've probably made this argument before but people think they're smarter and better-looking than they actually are, so they'll gravitate towards smarter and better-looking "everymen."

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Naw but how about 60 years from now?
    It'll probably happen at some point, as social and technological changes make it impossible to accept that the stories published in the 1960s could have happened in any similar way in the high school days of the young Peter Parker. But we don't know when it'll happen.

    I get the idea that having Peter get a doctorate, and progress in other ways (get married, have kids) can function as a story engine for decades, although I'm not sure about that.

  14. #74
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    He probably should never get a doctorate, at least as long as we expect the book to continue for a long period of time. This part of the story shouldn't be told, since professional happiness is more about the ending.
    Just the same, I'd like to see him try and fail miserably.
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  15. #75
    iMan 42s
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    Here's a though, Peter restarts Parker Industries but under a different direction, in this case under Spider-man. How you might ask? Peter Parker is a man that is devoted to the betterment of society and quality of life (I'd assume anyways) and is a man who reports the news though as a photographer. Peter Parker is looking for ways to be everywhere and he in a sense is.

    Venom, Scarlet Spider, Ben Reilly, 2099, Iron Spider, Miles Morales, and Superior Spider-man, are all out doing things based on his image in one way or another. The Webware while originally hardware could then be redesigned as software. An app that acts similarly to a neighborhood watch (and in some sens with wrist devices, a friendly neighborhood watch). Anyone can report crime or suspicious activity on it and the Spider-men can then react in real time. And outside of them, the citizens can create a safety net (or web) around themselves with the app also acting as a social media app. It warns of oncoming dangers, it can have citizens react and report in real time, it can create a sense of community even among the extended spider-family, and it can alert out heroes as things are happening.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

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