Marvel Studios Shang Chi and the Legend of the 10 rings announced. Mandarin!!!

[Batman Begins 2005]

I loved MCU Mandarin...till that damn twist in Iron Man 3. Ugh.

[Blind Wedjat]

The Mandarin has definitely been portrayed as a Fu Manchu/Yellow Peril type in the past. Even if he didn't behave like one, he had the look (long robes, long fingernails, long hair/beard etc.). I'm not really sure what Daniel Cretton has planned for the character but for sure they're gonna be changing and avoiding a lot.

Back when I thought they'd just go with Shang-Chi's original father, my pitch was use the character to play on those ideas. That Zheng Zu's story is of him being an immortal man who has been fighting against the British and Western Imperialism since the Opium Wars, but many of the Yellow Peril stereotypes and the Fu Manchu character was created by the West to ridicule his legend in an attempt to decrease his influence and power. Zheng embraced some of this because he knew there was fear behind all of that, so he's used some of that iconography to build his new reputation as lord of the Si-Fan. So to them, his image might be the typical Fu Manchu look and attitude, but it's all for show and to instill fear.

They could do some of that using the Mandarin, especially if he's still Shang-Chi's dad. It does make things more complicated and potentially problematic (there's the possibility of sending the wrong message). The All Hail the King short implied the Mandarin has been around since at least the Middle Ages. It's not something the movie needs to directly follow, but another thing I suggested was make Zheng or the Mandarin's story about immortality being unreliable, or present conflicting evidence and never truly answer the question. Kinda like a Keyser Soze figure.

I also think they should introduce Shen Kuei AKA Cat as the Mandarin's top agent and rival of Shang. He should see the Mandarin in his evil persona as a father figure, making him a mirror image of Shang who is the Mandarin's true son.

[Michael Watkins]

i worry about this history being adopted by the comics, to be honest. it would be a poor fit. i wonder if Kun Lun will be involved, at all.

[Immortal Weapon]

i worry about this history being adopted by the comics, to be honest. it would be a poor fit. i wonder if Kun Lun will be involved, at all.

Kun Lun got claimed by Netflix when they used Iron Fist so not likely.

[ed2962]

I can see your point. Indeed, if you've read any of my posts at the Shang-Chi or Iron Fist threads, I've stated that characters like Fu Manchu have a lot of potential. If people could look beyond the Orientalist trappings, there was a very cool character. In the comics, Fu Manchu was very smart and devious, all of the makings of a terrific villain. In the same way, I, as a Chinese-American, haven't been very offended by the Mandarin. I've only come to appreciate these characters more in recent years when writers, who have been caucasian, have tried to modernize and remove these aspects of Orientalism and yellow perilism. When the villain for Shang-Chi was in flux, I adamantly believed that the villain should be a) Shang-Chi's father and b) a villain of Chinese descent. It would have added complexity.

So, when ANY writer goes and adds complexity to these characters, that's something that should be praised. (Indeed, as Jeff Yang mentioned, the Mandarin could be used, as long as he had complexity. I believe implicit in that is that any writer could do something like that). It disheartens me that a lot of individuals (Asians, Asian-Americans, and otherwise) didn't see it that way. I wish more individuals could. (I wish that for all the other things that come loaded when we have discussions like this, i.e. Danny Rand being white or the Ancient One being caucasian in the Dr. Strange movie). It disheartens me when people automatically feel that if a white hero were to fight an Asian villain, that would be seen as racist.

Still, I can't deny that others have felt differently. Yes, having Asians at the helm of the creative process makes a difference. There are certain intricacies of Asian culture that have very, VERY unique flavors (Shang-Chi defying his father, being a failure to parental expectations, that's something that a lot of Asians know deeply about. Other cultures have that too, but there's a special Asian quality to that's hard to describe). No, there isn't anything inherently wrong when a white hero fights an Asian villain. But it's been done over and over for many a long time now. Thus, Having Asians in charge of an Asian character who for the longest time was helmed by non-Asians, that means much. Having an Asian hero fight an Asian villain, that means much. These things take away the sting. Now, I personally don't fully agree with it. (Gail Simone can write tough action stuff with male protagonists. Christopher Priest writes a mean Deathstroke. Jim Lee draws a fantastic Batman. None are the same race and/or gender of the characters they produce).

But I still see it. And maybe a film like this can lead to a day where people don't care who writes whom, plays whom, or produces whom, just as long as its a great whom.

I think another good example to bring up is Ebony White from the old Spirit comics. The way Eisner portrayed him in the 40's would be seen as racist today, but modern writers were able to still use him by taking out the caricature stuff and making him a normal kid named Eubie.

[titanfan]

I kept waiting for a Mandarin like character to find Ebony Maw's rings after Avengers. In any case, they must have found an interpretation of the character they didn't think would be offensive to the Chinese market...

[Mistah K88]

If they can take something like Man Ape and make him something respectful yet still keeping his theme, I'm sure they could find a way to do it with Mandarin.

[Immortal Weapon]

If they can take something like Man Ape and make him something respectful yet still keeping his theme, I'm sure they could find a way to do it with Mandarin.

With Man Ape that was easy to do. All they had to do is not use the Man Ape name.

[Blind Wedjat]

With Man Ape that was easy to do. All they had to do is not use the Man Ape name.

And not put him in a gorilla suit. And not make him act like a barbarian. And make him likable. And tell a very meta joke about who he is.

It is a bit easier though, admittedly.

[Midvillian1322]

Kun Lun got claimed by Netflix when they used Iron Fist so not likely.

I doubt it get used at all but isnt the hold only 2years? Marvel might be able to use them though it would be super close when this movies start filming. Nevermind I was thinking about when IF 2 came out the 2year hold is probaly from when they cancelled the Netflix shows. Hmm yea I have no idea

As far as continuity Feige dont care about the Netflix shows or anything Marvel TV. Even Josh Whedon who filmed the pilot of AoS. When asked about the avengers being informed of Coulson being alive Whedon said in his head Coulson was still dead. Closes thing the movies did to recognizing the TV shows other then Jarvis in endgame was Coulson and the helicarrier and then Fury showing up with it in AoU.

[Punisher007]

They managed to incorporate far more of the "ape" motif into M'Baku's look and character than I was expecting, yet still make the character work. Because, the stuff that needed to be changed, they did change and in interesting ways. I see no reason why they cannot do the same thing for The Mandarin. Heck even Sir Ben's Mandarin was working for me up until the "twist."

Anyway, I wonder if they'll go with the MI6 stuff from the comics, or if they'll have SHIELD as a substitute?

[MichaelC]

Well the idea that an animistic culture would hold the gorilla spirit sacred isn't inherently offensive. It just has to be treated a little delicately, so it is clear that you are not conflating the tribe that does this with the worst traits of gorillas, which by extension would be calling them subhuman. I mean America technically has the eagle as one of its main symbols, but it's not a problem to use eagle imagery unless it is done in a way that implies that Americans are bird-brains.

[Tien Long]

Great extended interview with Simu over the Shang-Chi role:

[Tien Long]

Fung Bros. placing a Shang-Chi movie in a wider context. What might his mean for Asians and Asian-Americans:

[Hypestyle]

i'm confident this will be carefully crafted. It's important to a lot of people but if the studio doesn't over-fret and trusts the creatives, they can come up with something fun and compelling. Pragmatically, it needs to be profitable, not Oscar-winning, though that's cool, too.