Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[The Cool Thatguy]

I get what you’re saying, and you could be right, but I think most fans get that they’re variants from a different universe. I think they did a good job of separating these variants from the MCU proper. i also only think the general audience recognised Xavier, the rest were fairly obscure to casual movie goers.

I don’t think anyone outside of hardcore fans is too upset with Wanda honestly. I think it’s a bit different for comic fans seeing as they know her modern publication history, so it may feel a bit like we’re inching close toward comic Wanda controversies, but I think it’s clear Marvel are setting her up for a big redemption

I think you misunderstand me a little.

I'm positive all fans know, intellectually, and largely emotionally, that the Illuminati Wanda killed are variants.

But at the same time, they're still people. Characters portrayed by actors the audience loves, and all but one brutally slain.

Killing alternate reality characters in comics is different because they're 2D characters with no voice, no movement, no physical depth whatsoever.

That's not true of live action (obviously). We saw Wanda kill people knowingly and brutally. Most were red shirts, but they were still people. And yes, Wanda was influenced by the Dark hold, but she was still calling the shots and made the choice to study the book in the first place. She's no Winter Soldier.

I hope she can be redeemed too, but I don't see a smooth path for that.

[80sbaby]

I think you misunderstand me a little.

I'm positive all fans know, intellectually, and largely emotionally, that the Illuminati Wanda killed are variants.

But at the same time, they're still people. Characters portrayed by actors the audience loves, and all but one brutally slain.

Killing alternate reality characters in comics is different because they're 2D characters with no voice, no movement, no physical depth whatsoever.

That's not true of live action (obviously). We saw Wanda kill people knowingly and brutally. Most were red shirts, but they were still people. And yes, Wanda was influenced by the Dark hold, but she was still calling the shots and made the choice to study the book in the first place. She's no Winter Soldier.

I hope she can be redeemed too, but I don't see a smooth path for that.

I feel very safe in saying the general audience doesn't care about Wanda killing the Illuminati. The only one that could be considered a "fan favorite" is Xavier and audiences have seen him die 3 tines by now. They're more than used to it. Wanda can pretty easily be redeemed.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I feel very safe in saying the general audience doesn't care about Wanda killing the Illuminati. The only one that could be considered a "fan favorite" is Xavier and audiences have seen him die 3 tines by now. They're more than used to it. Wanda can pretty easily be redeemed.

Again, it's not that she killed Xavier.

It's that she slaughtered people. Some portrayed by actors we like, some just randos, but still.

It's hard to root for a crazy murderer, especially if their victims are sympathetic (like the mystics at the Temple, and the Illuminati, by in large.)

[80sbaby]

Again, it's not that she killed Xavier.

It's that she slaughtered people. Some portrayed by actors we like, some just randos, but still.

It's hard to root for a crazy murderer, especially if their victims are sympathetic (like the mystics at the Temple, and the Illuminati, by in large.)

Yes and what I'm saying is that the GA doesn't really care. They aren't "real people." They're NPCs, for all intents and purposes. All it will take is showing Wanda come back and assist the heroes for her to be forgiven by the masses. It's not like anyone's really holding grudges about the people she killed.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yes and what I'm saying is that the GA doesn't really care. They aren't "real people." They're NPCs, for all intents and purposes. All it will take is showing Wanda come back and assist the heroes for her to be forgiven by the masses. It's not like anyone's really holding grudges about the people she killed.

I'm sure Dr. Strange, and oh, I dunno...the entire magical community are holding onto a hell of a grudge for the deaths and destruction she caused.

Wanda enslaved a town (unintended, but still) and then went on to slaughter a bunch of mystics. The hero community isn't as tight as they are in comics, but word still gets around.

As for audiences, whether they care or not is debatable, but they last saw Wanda on a demented path of slaughter. Kinda hard to brush that under the rug.

[80sbaby]

I'm sure Dr. Strange, and oh, I dunno...the entire magical community are holding onto a hell of a grudge for the deaths and destruction she caused.

Wanda enslaved a town (unintended, but still) and then went on to slaughter a bunch of mystics. The hero community isn't as tight as they are in comics, but word still gets around.

As for audiences, whether they care or not is debatable, but they last saw Wanda on a demented path of slaughter. Kinda hard to brush that under the rug.

I'm talking about the general audience, not the characters (who will do whatever the script tells them so they're feelings are malleable.)

And the last we saw of Wanda, she actually sacrificed herself. No need to brush away anything. Just show her as repentant in the next film and have her do something truly heroic. People want to like Wanda, so all the writers need to do is give us a reason to.

[Frontier]

I personally don’t think it’s negatively impacted her, and I think the general audience feels the same? She had some great, powerful scenes that let her go a bit overboard, and have the excuse of her being corrupted by the Darkhold. I know it’s not exactly incredible story telling or character work, but I don’t think it’s made anyone think she’s a bad character.

I don’t think the conclusion of Wandavision pointed to her being out of the woods mentally, she still clearly had a lot of issues to work through, and I don’t think this was the worst way to go about it, story-wise. It sets her far apart from all the other heroes in the MCU, and keeps her arc quite unique to the movies. It’s important to remember how young she canonically is in this universe too, with an absolutely messed up life before her appearances in the films - we can afford to have a Scarlet Witch that messes up.

Yes. They will accept her as a hero (as long as the movie’s good of course). Loki, Wolverine, Bucky, Black Widow, and plenty of others have won the public over - some without even being corrupted, or having a beloved show like Wandavision

I think people think she was the villain of the piece and acknowledge she did a lot of messy and bad stuff in the movie. Granted, we're talking about the MCU where a serial killer vigilante got to go home and spend Christmas with his family with nary a real punishment for his actions, so the MCU isn't all that great when it comes to proper moral ethics or consequences (particularly for protagonists).

Maybe not out of the woods, but she was trying to improve herself, and rather than take a step forward she took 10x steps back. Especially since it seemed to, again, go against the whole point of the ending and the intention of the showrunners of her own show. And why set her apart from the heroes? Her fans have had to deal with House of M and Disassembled dogging her in the comics as much as it has, and I just don't see the need to adapt these stories that just screw her up more. Because she keeps screwing up and they don't let her consistently recover long from it, mostly based around bad stories.

I feel very safe in saying the general audience doesn't care about Wanda killing the Illuminati. The only one that could be considered a "fan favorite" is Xavier and audiences have seen him die 3 tines by now. They're more than used to it. Wanda can pretty easily be redeemed.

Reed Richards straight up mentions he also has a family and she kills him too while hijacking another Wanda's body and making her do it.

Man, that was rough.

[Jack The Tripper]

I honestly have a hard time believing that people will not forgive her because she killed people. As flimsy or simple as it is as a motivation, it was very clear that she had been corrupted by the Darkhold - make a big enough case for that in her redemption story and it’s sorted in the public’s mind. She’s not gonna be blacklisted by the public.

Personally, as a very casual comics-wanda fan, I think they’ve chosen a better route for her character honestly. I understand her fandom’s frustration, but they are a fairly small fandom, and I think the House of M consequences tend to cloud the actual potential of such a story. She didn’t cause a genocide in the movie,she went on a terrible mission, clouded by a dark force that painted her as messianic. It’s not the same story, and there’s less to get upset about, with a better excuse in my opinion. I don’t think it will mean permanent Wanda blacklisting to the public.

It’s annoying for the fans (especially considering the comic context) bu it’s much of an actual hindrance on the movie or the character moving forward in my opinion

[Jack The Tripper]

I think you misunderstand me a little.

I'm positive all fans know, intellectually, and largely emotionally, that the Illuminati Wanda killed are variants.

But at the same time, they're still people. Characters portrayed by actors the audience loves, and all but one brutally slain.

Killing alternate reality characters in comics is different because they're 2D characters with no voice, no movement, no physical depth whatsoever.

That's not true of live action (obviously). We saw Wanda kill people knowingly and brutally. Most were red shirts, but they were still people. And yes, Wanda was influenced by the Dark hold, but she was still calling the shots and made the choice to study the book in the first place. She's no Winter Soldier.

I hope she can be redeemed too, but I don't see a smooth path for that.

Corruption from the Darkhold can be played up or played down in future films, it’s not much of an obstacle imo. The Illuminati weren’t painted as totally good either, and were quite arrogant in their plan - not saying they deserved their deaths, but I think it was a conscious decision to make them morally grey and naive.

personally, I just don’t think the public are that mad at Wanda. I’m sure some fan circles are annoyed that certain characters were killed, and that Wanda’s fans are worried about the future, but people will forgive anything that has an emotional redemption.

Anyway, enough of Wanda - as a Doctor Strange movie I think it moved his character forward quite a bit, whilst showing off some cool supernatural powers for the MCU. Loved it!

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm fond of Angel so I'm up for a redemption story. It gives her a stronger drive but Buffy used season 3 to rehabilitate him enough to go off onto LA. Wanda needs the same treatment.

You could always use a variant as a shortcut. Have an alternate version of Wanda atone for this version's crimes.

[Frontier]

I honestly have a hard time believing that people will not forgive her because she killed people. As flimsy or simple as it is as a motivation, it was very clear that she had been corrupted by the Darkhold - make a big enough case for that in her redemption story and it’s sorted in the public’s mind. She’s not gonna be blacklisted by the public.

Personally, as a very casual comics-wanda fan, I think they’ve chosen a better route for her character honestly. I understand her fandom’s frustration, but they are a fairly small fandom, and I think the House of M consequences tend to cloud the actual potential of such a story. She didn’t cause a genocide in the movie,she went on a terrible mission, clouded by a dark force that painted her as messianic. It’s not the same story, and there’s less to get upset about, with a better excuse in my opinion. I don’t think it will mean permanent Wanda blacklisting to the public.

It’s annoying for the fans (especially considering the comic context) bu it’s much of an actual hindrance on the movie or the character moving forward in my opinion

Even setting aside whether it's believable or not (and whether the audience can but it), I think the question is whether it was even necessary to begin with. Like even the justification from the writers was basically just that it happened in the comics and Feige was doggedly determined to adapt that storyline for Wanda for some reason.

I mean, when it's a characters' literal fandom, small or large, I feel like their opinion is kind of valid .

Corruption from the Darkhold can be played up or played down in future films, it’s not much of an obstacle imo. The Illuminati weren’t painted as totally good either, and were quite arrogant in their plan - not saying they deserved their deaths, but I think it was a conscious decision to make them morally grey and naive.

It's always interesting to me when a story telegraphs or conditions the audience to expect or accept the death of certain characters.

Anyway, enough of Wanda - as a Doctor Strange movie I think it moved his character forward quite a bit, whilst showing off some cool supernatural powers for the MCU. Loved it!

I'm at least glad we're finally done with Christine and they introduced Clea.

[Nate Grey]

I'm at least glad we're finally done with Christine and they introduced Clea.

Wait, are we done with her, though? I assumed Rachel McAdams signed the typical boilerplate 3-picture contract. If not, good run, if so, one more picture to go (though not necessarily in a Doctor Strange 3).

[kcekada]

This was on regular cable for the first time last Sunday. Surprised no one else chimed in on it -- but maybe that's because the thread was last updated end of 2022 -- over a year ago.

Over all, the movie was much better than I expected. A lot of it was very creepy -- and I liked that aspect of it. I liked that Scarlet Witch was so powerful -- and even a league Strange and his followers couldn't defeat her, but I didn't like that she was a villain after the amazing WandaVision series. I know there is a history of Wanda being a villain -- but it would have been better to show her actually possessed b Cthon as she was in the old Avengers story. Frankly, after making Agatha Harkness a villain -- I get the feeling that the MCU doesn't like powerful women.

The Shuma Gorath appearance was amazing, but I was disappointed that he didn't show up on his own -- and was summoned by Wanda.

I never cared one iota about Christine -- Rachel McAdam's character -- and that didn't change here. Would rather they had saved Wanda for another movie -- and just introduced Clea at the beginning. Regarding Clea -- I've always liked her -- and she was amazing in Roger Stern's run in the 1980s. But I feel it's a bit of a misstep casting the amazing Chalize Theron so late -- and not casting her as Captain Marvel. Her casting alone could probably have saved 'The Marvels'.

[TheRay]

I hope we see Silver Dagger and The Darkhold in 3.