Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

[HollowSage]

Wanda was using the darkhold, I won't say that her grip on sanity was that strong

I don’t know why people downplay the effect that the Darkhold had on her. It’s similar to how a drugs can make people make irrational decisions. Maybe they needed more scenes of her being corrupted by it to help get the point across.

[Scott Taylor]

The movie hit us over the head several times with the notion that the Darkhold corrupts people who use it - in words. And there was a mention of Cthon, but again it was just words. Movies need to show things to get the point across, you can't just say it and have it be believed. And everything you saw was Wanda seemingly in complete control over herself, acting very much like Wanda. Plus, everyone was fighting Wanda, not the Darkhold or some other thing behind it, like Cthon.

So I can definitely see how it might be that people blame Wanda rather than the inanimate object she was holding.

The first Dr. Strange movie showed how Dormammu had corrupted his followers, by altering their appearance and by turning them into basically zealots for his cause. We didn't see any sign that what Wanda was doing was benefiting anyone but herself. Which still could be corruption but its pretty subtle. What does Cthon or the Darkhold get out of it, if it was deliberate corruption?

[Jokerz79]

The movie hit us over the head several times with the notion that the Darkhold corrupts people who use it - in words. And there was a mention of Cthon, but again it was just words. Movies need to show things to get the point across, you can't just say it and have it be believed. And everything you saw was Wanda seemingly in complete control over herself, acting very much like Wanda. Plus, everyone was fighting Wanda, not the Darkhold or some other thing behind it, like Cthon.

So I can definitely see how it might be that people blame Wanda rather than the inanimate object she was holding.

The first Dr. Strange movie showed how Dormammu had corrupted his followers, by altering their appearance and by turning them into basically zealots for his cause. We didn't see any sign that what Wanda was doing was benefiting anyone but herself. Which still could be corruption but its pretty subtle. What does Cthon or the Darkhold get out of it, if it was deliberate corruption?

I didn't see the Darkhold as a being but more like an addiction. Most Meth and Herion/opioid addicts are decent fine people until they get hooked then they'll do anything to get their fix. Also their appearance changes for the worse I've seen people age 20 years in 5 due to drugs. The Darkhold was changing Wanda's appearance with the blackening of her fingertips and when she killed Xavier she was in full Sith mode with appearance. Which is another good analogy the Dark Side corrupts individuals into committing selfish acts they would normally reject.

[kidfresh512]

The movie hit us over the head several times with the notion that the Darkhold corrupts people who use it - in words. And there was a mention of Cthon, but again it was just words. Movies need to show things to get the point across, you can't just say it and have it be believed. And everything you saw was Wanda seemingly in complete control over herself, acting very much like Wanda. Plus, everyone was fighting Wanda, not the Darkhold or some other thing behind it, like Cthon.

So I can definitely see how it might be that people blame Wanda rather than the inanimate object she was holding.

The first Dr. Strange movie showed how Dormammu had corrupted his followers, by altering their appearance and by turning them into basically zealots for his cause. We didn't see any sign that what Wanda was doing was benefiting anyone but herself. Which still could be corruption but its pretty subtle. What does Cthon or the Darkhold get out of it, if it was deliberate corruption?

Not only did the movie make it very clear the Darkhold was influencing her negatively. WandaVision and Agatha specifically told her she didn't know what she was doing, she was untrained and reckless in magic. She basically grabbed "The book of the Damnded" an advanced magic book and "self-taught" herself.

Even the scene where Agatha killed her coven in history they were initially condemning her for using magic 'above her station'. Same thing Wanda ended up doing honestly.

[Frontier]

Random Multiverse of Madness Thoughts:

- I do think the movie has a thorough-line and arc for Strange...can he be happy? Can he accept help? But it kind of gets lost with everything else going on in the movie.

- They're really pushing the Christine Palmer thing after What If. Like, they seemed like exes and close friends in the first one but now it's "I never got over you, I'm in love with you in every dimension, etc." Where does that leave Clea then? The one woman he can actually be an equal partner with and won't put up with his @#$% but still want to be with him?

- Wanda turning villain was so abrupt. Like, barely five minutes of screentime and then she's like "yeah, okay, I'm the bad guy." And like the entire point of the ending of WandaVision was Wanda realizing she screwed up and trying to learn to control her powers so this doesn't happen again and subverting the tropes of powerful women going crazy and falling prey to female stereotypes...only for this to double down on her being an out of control powerful woman who is obsessed with her kids (crazy moms, amirite?). It's like they struggled to come up with a villain for this film so they just defaulted to making it Wanda and blaming the Darkhold so they didn't have to really put more work into it. Even their justifications for it mostly boil down to "well, it happened in the comics" even though it was badly handled in the comics to begin with. The only reason it works as well as it does is because of Elizabeth Olsen's acting.

- Also the same issue in the comics where Wanda is so obsessed with her kids that she barely brings up Vision when WandaVision was as much, if not more, about her love for Vision as it was about her getting kids. I think Elizabeth Olsen had to justify why Vision wasn't in the Variant universe because thinks they got divorced in that timeline, but it just feels like it's devaluing their romance.

- It's weird that a Dr. Strange film doesn't actually have a Dr. Strange villain in it other than Mordo. Like, Wanda feels like they mixed Umar and Nightmare together, but why not, like, actually use those characters? Well, they might just use Umar since they introduced Clea, but still.

- Even as Sorcerer Supreme, Wong still ends up playing sidekick.

- I love how Rintrah gets so much marketing and merch and doesn't even get named in the actual movie. Or does, really, anything.

- Their take on America Chavez's origin was more comical than I think they intended it to be. I mean, a bee!? A frikkin bee!? Although her parents are actually alive now, so...good for her?

- All the stuff with Mordo really feels like it's relying a lot on viewers taking at face-value a lot of stuff happening off-screen like Mordo having an entire character arc or story of becoming comic Baron Mordo and dedicating his life to destroying Dr. Strange so that you really feel the contrast with how happy Variant Mordo was to see Strange or that moment when Strange goads him into playing to type and trying to kill him. And this isn't even taking into account how they were planning to just have Wanda unceremoniously off the main Mordo at the start of the movie. Chiwetel Ejiofor's just trying to do the best that he can with what little they give him to work with.

- Also "Baron Karl Mordo" was on the level of "I'm a Baron, Sam." And yet Strange only notices the "Karl" part. Did he not hear Mordo's first name in the first movie?

- The two Strange's talking about their sister was probably one of the more powerful moments in the movie. Also I feel like Cumberbatch actually did a solid job differentiating all the Stranges, even the ones with really brief scenes. But so much for Strange Supreme actually being in this even though they basically just threw in an equivalent of him.

- So is possessed Wanda off the hook for basically murdering the entire Illuminati? I know she was possessed, but still...

- The Illuminati was so much fanservice that they didn't seem to really think past that sequence with Strange when they fight Wanda. I mean, Reed does nothing other than tell Wanda how to basically kill Black Bolt and the women are the only ones who put up much of a fight.

- Does being Captain Marvel somehow make you smugger and more condescending? Because that seems to be what happened to Maria.

- They can't even get James Spader to do marginal Ultron lines anymore?

- Patrick Stewart still knows how to deliver as Professor X. A mental neck snap was kind of another graphic way of killing him though.

- I have to say, as much as I question Christine Palmer's role in this film, Rachel McAdams looks great with red hair and in that bodysuit.

- The Clea mid-credit scene was so abrupt after the prior ending. The Darkhold power starts going crazy in Strange and then suddenly...mid-credit scene he's just walking around normally, gets immediately accosted by Clea, and is off to an adventure in the Dark Dimension like nothing ever happened outside his third eye. Like the mid-credit scene would've been a much better ending but it felt like they needed one big moment to justify their usual mid-credit scene thing. It was just a bit too much for me.

[Phoenixx9]

- The Clea mid-credit scene was so abrupt after the prior ending. The Darkhold power starts going crazy in Strange and then suddenly...mid-credit scene he's just walking around normally, gets immediately accosted by Clea, and is off to an adventure in the Dark Dimension like nothing ever happened outside his third eye. Like the mid-credit scene would've been a much better ending but it felt like they needed one big moment to justify their usual mid-credit scene thing. It was just a bit too much for me.

I agree with most of what you wrote. But this Clea scene, while welcomed, was exactly what I thought as well.

[Scott Taylor]

I didn't see the Darkhold as a being but more like an addiction. Most Meth and Herion/opioid addicts are decent fine people until they get hooked then they'll do anything to get their fix. Also their appearance changes for the worse I've seen people age 20 years in 5 due to drugs. The Darkhold was changing Wanda's appearance with the blackening of her fingertips and when she killed Xavier she was in full Sith mode with appearance. Which is another good analogy the Dark Side corrupts individuals into committing selfish acts they would normally reject.

Ah yes, I forgot about the fingers. Wasn't sure if that was the Darkhold itself doing that or just a temporary effect due to the amount of power being channeled. None of those effects were permanent.

Not only did the movie make it very clear the Darkhold was influencing her negatively. WandaVision and Agatha specifically told her she didn't know what she was doing, she was untrained and reckless in magic. She basically grabbed "The book of the Damnded" an advanced magic book and "self-taught" herself.

Even the scene where Agatha killed her coven in history they were initially condemning her for using magic 'above her station'. Same thing Wanda ended up doing honestly.

Which brings up a good point, with Wandavision. Wanda would definitely have done all that she did in MoM with or without the Darkhold. Before she was even introduced to the Darkhold, she had forcibly enslaved an entire town for her own benefit. Then she took the Darkhold despite any warnings to the contrary and just continued what she had already set out to do in the first place. I don't really see corruption, but more a person who has lost it.

[Frontier]

Which brings up a good point, with Wandavision. Wanda would definitely have done all that she did in MoM with or without the Darkhold. Before she was even introduced to the Darkhold, she had forcibly enslaved an entire town for her own benefit. Then she took the Darkhold despite any warnings to the contrary and just continued what she had already set out to do in the first place. I don't really see corruption, but more a person who has lost it.

Except she was, ostensibly, supposed to learn from Westview and how badly it got screwed up. Except she didn't.

[phonogram12]

I think it was from the Special Features that they had up on D+ that this was ultimately the direction they wanted to go with her, anyway. MOM was supposed to be just the setup, but they decided to speed things up a bit.

[Frontier]

I think it was from the Special Features that they had up on D+ that this was ultimately the direction they wanted to go with her, anyway. MOM was supposed to be just the setup, but they decided to speed things up a bit.

I don't know why Feige is so determined to adapt a bad storyline.

[Scott Taylor]

Except she was, ostensibly, supposed to learn from Westview and how badly it got screwed up. Except she didn't.

I still really liked both Wandavision and MoM, but it does no favors to Wanda fans.

[phonogram12]

I don't know why Feige is so determined to adapt a bad storyline.

It could've been at least partially that Olsen really wanted to play a crazy and borderline villainous Wanda. Less for story reasons (at least on her part) and more that it's just more fun for actors to portray. I can't entirely blame her. I've heard in interviews that as much as she appreciates the opportunities she's had to play her, it does considerably limit the opportunities to flex her acting muscles in other roles. Might as well mix things up with Wanda.

That said, it probably could've used another movie or series to ruminate. But rumor has it she may be receiving her own film some time in the near future, so hopefully things will be cleared up then.

[Frontier]

It could've been at least partially that Olsen really wanted to play a crazy and borderline villainous Wanda. Less for story reasons (at least on her part) and more that it's just more fun for actors to portray. I can't entirely blame her. I've heard in interviews that as much as she appreciates the opportunities she's had to play her, it does considerably limit the opportunities to flex her acting muscles in other roles. Might as well mix things up with Wanda.

That said, it probably could've used another movie or series to ruminate. But rumor has it she may be receiving her own film some time in the near future, so hopefully things will be cleared up then.

Oh, no doubt, and her performance helped sell it far better than the writing did or it had any reason being, it's just still a case of Wanda being defined by her worst story and that kind of taking over a Dr. Strange movie.

[Jack The Tripper]

I know a lot of people didn’t care for this film but I loved it. Happy to see it get best movie at the people’s choice awards. It’s a pointless accolade, but this movie got dunked on way too much imo, so I’m happy to see it get more good press!

[Maestro 216]

I know a lot of people didn’t care for this film but I loved it. Happy to see it get best movie at the people’s choice awards. It’s a pointless accolade, but this movie got dunked on way too much imo, so I’m happy to see it get more good press!

"Disney bought the critics!"