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  1. #496
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    At this point you're deliberately obtuse.
    No. I'm just not extrapolating the most negative fantasy possible out of a single solicit.

    Emma Frost is featured on the cover of the premiere issue of Marauders. The solicits and advance information indicate she is a featured member. That's evidence for my points, evidence you don't address because it doesn't fit your narrative about a book you haven't read yet.

    And even if she happens to be on the mainland for one issue - or even multiple issues! - that status has no evidence of changing. We have no evidence of it beyond your resentment of how Marvel has treated the character in recent years. Which is valid, but is not relevant to the discussion of what these solicits actually, literally prove and convey. I can be as unhappy as you about how Emma has been handled in recent years. I still see zero evidence that oh, Emma's not really in the book, not really an X-Man. There's no more of that than any other misleading solicit in the last 20 years. It's not 'different now' because of that Inhumans crap or Rosenberg or anything else.

  2. #497
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    A month ago people were mad that Emma was going to humiliated on the boat by Storm and Kitty but now they’re mad she’s not on the boat.
    And we don't even know she's not on the friggin' boat! LOL. She's on the boat on the cover for #1.

  3. #498
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    And we don't even know she's not on the friggin' boat! LOL. She's on the boat on the cover for #1.
    So do covers lie or not? Because you seem to change if they do or not based on who you're posting about.

    Considering Solicit 2 clearly contradicts it, and the initial spoiler indicates her only mention is a flashback setting up the book.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  4. #499
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    No. I'm just not extrapolating the most negative fantasy possible out of a single solicit.

    Emma Frost is featured on the cover of the premiere issue of Marauders. The solicits and advance information indicate she is a featured member. That's evidence for my points, evidence you don't address because it doesn't fit your narrative about a book you haven't read yet.

    And even if she happens to be on the mainland for one issue - or even multiple issues! - that status has no evidence of changing. We have no evidence of it beyond your resentment of how Marvel has treated the character in recent years. Which is valid, but is not relevant to the discussion of what these solicits actually, literally prove and convey. I can be as unhappy as you about how Emma has been handled in recent years. I still see zero evidence that oh, Emma's not really in the book, not really an X-Man. There's no more of that than any other misleading solicit in the last 20 years. It's not 'different now' because of that Inhumans crap or Rosenberg or anything else.
    You're giving Marvel a ridiculous level of blind optimism that they haven't deserved in over 20 years. They haven't earned the right for X-fans to be positive or optimistic about ANY of their work. And I say that as an X-Men fan in general. They threw the X-Men under the bus for AvX, they threw the X-Men under the bus to push the Inhumans Netflix series, and only walked it back after it bombed. They've been the red-headed stepchild of the Marvel universe since Fox bought their rights, and it showed with nearly every story they published since 2006.

    At this point, fans should hope for the best, and expect the worst, and even that's being extremely generous. The whole "Hickman will change everything" is marketing drivel. "Engineers created all of history, marketing simply misrepresented it." Know how you know a marketing team is lying to you? They're talking. So yeah, I'm gonna be extremely pessimistic about this run (and every other one for that matter). Marvel put itself in the situation where fans should regard everything that put out as crap until it proves itself to not be crap.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #500

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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    At this point you're deliberately obtuse.

    "The Hellfire Trading Company has control of Mutant trade on the seas… but that doesn’t mean its Inner Circle is done stabbing one another in the back. As Captain Pryde and her Marauders sail on, the real cutthroats are back home…"

    So Emma isn't with the team at all. Whether or not she is allied with them has yet to be seen. But that's evidence for my point, and absolutely zero for yours. So cut the condescending BS.
    PERIODT! Until I see Mama fighting alongside Storm, Kate, Bishop, Bobby, and the other Marauders. I consider her no more than a side character in the comic. After the bullshit Marvel put Mama through I will not support a comic that regulates her to a side character. Either have her as one of the main characters or I'll focus my money on Fallen Angels and Excalibur
    Emma Frost & Aero fan

  6. #501
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    You're giving Marvel a ridiculous level of blind optimism that they haven't deserved in over 20 years.
    Over 20 years? Are you counting Grant Morrison among the writers who hated, disparaged or abused Emma? Because he is the only reason she is as popular and central to the franchise as she is today. Don't kid yourself: Gen X was never going to get her there. Never.

    I hated plenty of the same stories and eras you did. The difference is I don't judge all writers by past resentments. Jonathan Hickman is a very different writer from the cavalcade of either hacks and well-meaning but systemically ineffectual writers we've gotten since NXM and Astonishing ended. And he appears to have carte blanche. I know his work well and choose to trust in it. I came back to the books for him and only him, because in my experience he reflects a commitment to quality, and because of that (and the Fox merger) I believe the years of the franchise between marginalized as a redheaded child are over. You don't trust in that, that's fine. But you don't get to tell me who I'm allowed to trust in as an X-Men fan. And as for who will accept what and be snowed by Marvel? Only one of us was willing to sit through the whole of the last 15 largely terrible years, and it wasn't me.

  7. #502
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Over 20 years? Are you counting Grant Morrison among the writers who hated, disparaged or abused Emma? Because he is the only reason she is as popular and central to the franchise as she is today. Don't kid yourself: Gen X was never going to get her there. Never.

    I hated plenty of the same stories and eras you did. The difference is I don't judge all writers by past resentments. Jonathan Hickman is a very different writer from the cavalcade of either hacks and well-meaning but systemically ineffectual writers we've gotten since NXM and Astonishing ended. And he appears to have carte blanche. I know his work well and choose to trust in it. I came back to the books for him and only him, because in my experience he reflects a commitment to quality, and because of that (and the Fox merger) I believe the years of the franchise between marginalized as a redheaded child are over. You don't trust in that, that's fine. But you don't get to tell me who I'm allowed to trust in as an X-Men fan. And as for who will accept what and be snowed by Marvel? Only one of us was willing to sit through the whole of the last 15 largely terrible years, and it wasn't me.
    Morrison brought Emma in, and may have done the most damage to the character of any writer until Rosenberg. No one ever talks about Emma in regards to the X-Men after that except to mention the only event in X-Men history that matters: THE AFFAIR. Everything positive she did afterwards was overshadowed by that one moment in time, and it continues to this day.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #503
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Morrison brought Emma in, and may have done the most damage to the character of any writer until Rosenberg.
    That's hilarious. Emma Frost would be nowhere near what she's become to the franchise in the 21st century without Grant Morrison and the romance with Scott. That run and that relationship were popular, and it lasted because of that.

    No one ever talks about Emma in regards to the X-Men after that except to mention the only event in X-Men history that matters: THE AFFAIR. Everything positive she did afterwards was overshadowed by that one moment in time, and it continues to this day.
    Maybe on this board if someone's constantly tussling with Jean Grey superfans or something things can seem that way, I guess. But no, out there among the public? A lot of people loved that run. They loved Astonishing. They loved Emma in it and they dug Emma with Scott. Do you really think Jean stayed dead for as long as she did because Scott and Emma was largely hated? That they just stuck with it so long because of "dead is dead"? A rule Quesada abandoned close to fifteen years ago?

    You may not like the abuse she took from a corner of the fandom, and that is valid. But outside that bubble, on the whole, Emma's profile was massively raised and her popularity hugely enhanced because of Morrison and the relationship with Scott. It was controversial but it was popular and successful. There is no set of alternative facts in the world that can erase that. I never thought I'd see an Emma Frost fan claim Grant Morrison ruined her, but here we are.

  9. #504
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    What are we really arguing about here? lol we literally don't know enough to extrapolate how any of the characters are going to be treated during this run.

  10. #505
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    That's hilarious. Emma Frost would be nowhere near what she's become to the franchise in the 21st century without Grant Morrison and the romance with Scott. That run and that relationship were popular, and it lasted because of that.



    Maybe on this board if someone's constantly tussling with Jean Grey superfans or something things can seem that way, I guess. But no, out there among the public? A lot of people loved that run. They loved Astonishing. They loved Emma in it and they dug Emma with Scott. Do you really think Jean stayed dead for as long as she did because Scott and Emma was largely hated? That they just stuck with it so long because of "dead is dead"? A rule Quesada abandoned close to fifteen years ago?

    You may not like the abuse she took from a corner of the fandom, and that is valid. But outside that bubble, on the whole, Emma's profile was massively raised and her popularity hugely enhanced because of Morrison and the relationship with Scott. It was controversial but it was popular and successful. There is no set of alternative facts in the world that can erase that. I never thought I'd see an Emma Frost fan claim Grant Morrison ruined her, but here we are.
    I like the Morrison run, but Emma's portrayal was up-and-down at best. It also set the table for the future writings of her not caring at all about the students, and only being there because of Scott, which is a huge disservice to the character.

    Jean stayed dead because of the dumb editorial board controversy regarding the D'Bari. Jean fans love to blame Emma for keeping her dead, but it was editorial's paranoia about "glorifying mass murderers" at a somewhat sensitive time in regards to violence in the media (which was crap).

    The affair, however, is a point of contention for all X-fans, and finding out that it happened because Joe Quesada was having marital issues really makes it look bad in hindsight.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  11. #506
    Incredible Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    HoX is here. We don’t have to pretend to only like or care about one character anymore.

  12. #507
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    HoX is here. We don’t have to pretend to only like or care about one character anymore.
    Very true. It's now all about our main + Nimrod.

  13. #508
    New Mutant TOTALITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    I like the Morrison run, but Emma's portrayal was up-and-down at best. It also set the table for the future writings of her not caring at all about the students, and only being there because of Scott, which is a huge disservice to the character.

    Jean stayed dead because of the dumb editorial board controversy regarding the D'Bari. Jean fans love to blame Emma for keeping her dead, but it was editorial's paranoia about "glorifying mass murderers" at a somewhat sensitive time in regards to violence in the media (which was crap).

    The affair, however, is a point of contention for all X-fans, and finding out that it happened because Joe Quesada was having marital issues really makes it look bad in hindsight.
    Every rational part of me says not to engage but my fatal flaw really wants to hear more about this dank conspiracy theory. I can't find anything via google - where did this come from? How does the story go? Did Morrison... insert a meta reference to his EiC's marital problems? Did Joe Quesada demand that Grant Morrison include an infidelity plot in his X-Men run as an outlet for his private problems? Is the real reason Morrison never worked for Marvel again because it was the most harrowingly unprofessional work environment of his career, his boss using him as a therapist?

  14. #509
    Incredible Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Very true. It's now all about our main + Nimrod.
    Nimrod is a cutiepie. I want him to annihilate all my faves.

  15. #510
    Incredible Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOTALITY View Post
    Every rational part of me says not to engage but my fatal flaw really wants to hear more about this dank conspiracy theory. I can't find anything via google - where did this come from? How does the story go? Did Morrison... insert a meta reference to his EiC's marital problems? Did Joe Quesada demand that Grant Morrison include an infidelity plot in his X-Men run as an outlet for his private problems? Is the real reason Morrison never worked for Marvel again because it was the most harrowingly unprofessional work environment of his career, his boss using him as a therapist?
    I'm now imaging Morrison in Quesada's office this pose http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_I9bvIbQAkV...0/scan0021.jpg

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