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  1. #556
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    why don't you google it then?
    Burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  2. #557
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So you think it is a wild and pure coincidence that Quesada, going through a horrible marriage and divorce, takes over and suddenly three of the longest tenured marriages in all of Marvel are killed in horrific and brutal fashion? With him ON RECORD saying marriages make comic characters worse. Okay then.
    Again: Undoing the Spider-Marriage was a long term project at Marvel going back ages. It was unpopular with many creatives. Scott and Jean, by contrast, were the (annoying) First Couple of the X-Men and very popular with much of the readership. There is no evidence linking the longstanding Spider-Man issue at Marvel with the X-Men beyond a frankly crass fan psychoanalysis of a real life person, and there is no evidence in print or in media that suggests Quesada saw them the same way or had any bearing on Morrison's storytelling for that love triangle.

    As for Hank and Janet Pym - give me a break. They'd been on and off and toxic since the 1980s, their entire history is turmoil, divorce and reconciliation. Quesada was far from the first or last editor to split that couple and we all know that. IIRC they weren't even together when Janet briefly 'died' in Secret Invasion. You're trying to build correlation to service a personal narrative that vindicates a feeling, you're not looking at the actual chronology and facts. These are all three completely different things.

  3. #558
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAWRlrus View Post
    They've been going on this path since DoX/IvX, even after the Inhumans weren't an issue. I'm at a point where I'm going to assume the book paints her horribly until its shown that it won't.
    And then what?

  4. #559
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Burden of proof is on the person making the claim.
    He just married a woman that looks like Emma, so yeah obvious

    put my money here https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6uUZ0nWgAEAtoj.jpg
    Last edited by spirit2011; 08-23-2019 at 12:38 PM.

  5. #560
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    I probably didn't help things by being pessimistic but we should all calm down a little. This book hasn't even come out yet and everyone is future hating it before it's released.

    Also, I don't want this thread to descend into another fight about Scott, Jean, and Emma, please lets avoid doing that. I love Jean and Emma, they are in my top 3 characters alongside Rachel. Scott's definitely in my top 10. I am happy they are all back and are all participants in the Dawn of X. When Marauders comes out maybe Emma isn't with the team initially because she is too pre-occupied keeping Shaw off their backs at home. But in a lot of series where the characters aren't all together the comic often has an A and B story that follows the divided group. So while the Marauders are on mission we will probably still get to see what Emma is doing each issue too, she is one of the primary characters of the book alongside Kitty, Storm, Bobby, Bishop, and Pyro.

    In the end we really don't know what is happening. It might turn out that Storm and Emma are in constant contact with each other and working together to support the mission Kitty wants to go on.

    I just hope that Emma ends up regularly with the rest of them at some point even if it might take a few issues for it to happen. But I do believe she is going to be in the series ongoing for the long term.

  6. #561
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    And then what?
    Then we see what happens. If it turns out that the covers and solicits all bold-facedly lied to their audience and Emma is a good guy seamlessly working with four people that hate her, we can admit we were wrong, and blast the book for an entirely new and possibly worse form of BS.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  7. #562
    Incredible Member powerpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Then we see what happens. If it turns out that the covers and solicits all bold-facedly lied to their audience and Emma is a good guy seamlessly working with four people that hate her, we can admit we were wrong, and blast the book for an entirely new and possibly worse form of BS.
    You're already moving the goalposts, though. You know Emma will have conflict with other X-Men just as she always has. You know there will be drama as there always has been. That's part of the appeal of the character to the audience, the natural friction. But drama and conflict are not the same things as 'Emma is a villain/side character.'

  8. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    And then what?
    Then I'll have more faith in the writer and their plan until I'm given a reason otherwise. But I've been burned by past solicits that paint this similarly. It doesn't help that they're showing her away from the team.

  9. #564
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    Kitty is straight! I love Claremont but he says a lot. He also planned to put Kitty with Gambit at one time.
    Remember that one time that Claremont basically made it canon that Kitty was going to be president one day and that when she was her first spouse was Rachel in every way but actually saying that? And how she was constantly ship teased with Magik, Rachel, and even Saturnyne?

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  10. #565
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Storm, Kitty, Emma, Bishop, Pyro, Iceman on an X-team...(never happened before)
    Emma as head of Hellfire assisting (financial/otherwise) X-Men to save mutants around the Globe...(never happened before)
    They're using an actual ship to navigate around the world...(never happened before)

    That ALL sounds to me like a new and interesting direction...a far cry from the mutant vs mutant crap we've gotten for the past decade plus, ad nauseum.

  11. #566
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Storm, Kitty, Emma, Bishop, Pyro, Iceman on an X-team...(never happened before)
    Emma as head of Hellfire assisting (financial/otherwise) X-Men to save mutants around the Globe...(never happened before)
    They're using an actual ship to navigate around the world...(never happened before)

    That ALL sounds to me like a new and interesting direction...a far cry from the mutant vs mutant crap we've gotten for the past decade plus, ad nauseum.
    It's a new direction, for sure. But what it all means still isn't clear and won't be until HoX/PoX wrap up.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  12. #567
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Then, sorry to put it this way but...
    "common sense" dictates that we wait and see just how things unfold with HoX and PoX before you all jump to pre-conceived conclusions.

  13. #568
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    Then, sorry to put it this way but...
    "common sense" dictates that we wait and see just how things unfold with HoX and PoX before you all jump to pre-conceived conclusions.
    HoX/PoX likely won't have any lasting effects on the things that matter to Emma fans: her portrayal in Marauders. So all we have to go on are the covers and solicits.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  14. #569
    New Mutant TOTALITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    Kitty is straight! I love Claremont but he says a lot. He also planned to put Kitty with Gambit at one time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harpsikord View Post
    Remember that one time that Claremont basically made it canon that Kitty was going to be president one day and that when she was her first spouse was Rachel in every way but actually saying that? And how she was constantly ship teased with Magik, Rachel, and even Saturnyne?
    Also author intent really can't be the litmus for this stuff. Like when a critic reviews a film, it's their job to translate what the film *is saying* and not speculate what the director *wanted* to say (or in many cases has publicly stated).. how a work makes you feel is always more important than how you think you were "intended" to feel because A) those things are often at odds and B) the latter goes beyond the text. Once a work is out in the world, the creator can still be interesting or illuminating to hear from, but how people process it is largely out of their hands.

    So, yeah, Claremont says a lot, but when you read his stories, does Kitty feel straight to you? If so, that's valid, but she sure doesn't to me, and that's valid too. And the beauty of the human psyche is no number of heterosexual relationships or even a thought bubble of her saying "I sure am only attracted to men named Peter!" (which does not to my knowledge exist) would preclude her from having actually been more complicated all along, or later being like "unless.." or "oh who am I kidding". And the beauty of comics is that there's always room for a new story to cast a new light on previous ones, or for a creator to zero in on something they saw there in a way that others can see it too.

  15. #570
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    or Storm fans, or Kitty fans, Or Iceman fans, for that matter.
    And covers and solicitations do not give a clear and accurate account of What will be written in the books and more importantly, How it will be written so...all the hand-wringing is quite unnecessary.

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