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  1. #1
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    Default Dick's transition to Nightwing confusion

    so, how did Dick give up being Robin? I was looking at his profile on DC database and it said that firstly, there was an encounter with Two-Face where Batman was being hanged and there was another guy and Robin dared Harvey to flip his coin and then the other guy fell and then Two-Face beat him to a pulp which alarmed Bruce and he sidelined Dick for a while which caused a little estrangement. When did that happen in the 1970s-80s comics? Then I saw in New Teen Titans 39 Dick telling the team he's giving up as Robin, and later giving the mantle to Jason? Add to further confusion, Wally gives up being Kid Flash, but I thought he did that in COIE? Then in Batman 408 Bruce takes Jason in again after Dick Robin gets shot by Joker and Bruce fires Dick. Confusing! Last question, what issue did Dick have the conversation with Superman about the Nightwing name?

  2. #2
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    The Two-Face thing to me, sounds a bit like Robin: Year One. Didn't come out until 2000, and has no direct bearing on him becoming Nightwing, from what I remember. For the record, I liked the start of it, but thought the mini went downhill with Robin getting benched, etc. Though it was, I'm sure, a deliberate call-out to that being done a couple times in old comics.

    You've read the Teen Titans version. Yes, Jason had already been taken in by Bruce (he had a different background then), and Dick was just moving on to a new name that was not so tied to Batman, where he could feel more independent. I feel that was kind of an editorial excuse, and that, at the time, "Robin" was not actually a kid's title, but one that had grown up with Dick, and that he was not perceived by the hero community at the backhalf of "Batman and" - but it was a decent story, and made transitioning feel like a right of passage, as long as I ignore that I think that passage had already happened. While pre-COIE, Dick and Bruce did have some strained ties and some times, they were not estranged and Dick got along with Jason. Dick let Bruce and Jason know the costume/name was Jason's now and gave Jason an old costume, I think.

    Later, post-Crisis, the entire event changed. 19-year-old Robin was fired after being shot by the Joker because being Robin was too dangerous. Within a couple months, Bruce had taken in Jason with an eye to training him (made no sense, but it's what happened). Dick and Bruce didn't even speak for 18 months. That was when Dick became Nightwing and the New Teen Titans formed. He and Jason never really got a chance to know each other very well before Jason's death. Jason did appear in NTT, but there's some argument as to whether he was being written as pre-or-post-COIE Jason there. Dick did give Jason an old uniform still, and his phone number so Jason could call if Bruce was being difficult. It's a much more hostile dynamic between Bruce and Dick than pre-COIE, with Bruce bearing 95% of the blame (when I'm being generous). When Dick comes back to talk, Bruce just tells him to leave. But even the first and second version of this in post-COIE vary a bit.

    You'll note that Superman doesn't play into Dick's name of Nightwing here. Despite the use of the name in the Silver Age, it was not, as far as I know, treated as connected in-universe in the 1980s. That doesn't happen until Nightwing 102 in Nightwing: Year One in 2005.

    I haven't read Crisis on Infinite Earths (big events with lots of death are not my thing), so can't help you on Wally there v. earlier.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-21-2019 at 09:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    There are about four or five different versions of Dick becoming Nightwing.

    The first was in NTT The Judas Contract where he gave up because he's grown older while Robin is a kid identity.

    The second was early in Post Crisis as an intro to Jason Todd's origin, where he was retired by Bruce out of concern for his safety after being shot by The Joker

    Batman took in Jason only a couple of months later because, when Dick confronted him later about it, I think it's the same issue where he first met Jason as Nightwing, Bruce admitted that it was because he misses Dick. Then he told him to please leave.

    The third was in Nightwing Year One where he was fired by Bruce for disobeying him. Nightwing Year One changed how Batman approached Jason's origin as well. Basically, he's a lot more of a jerk to both of them than in the 80s.

    The fourth was in Batman RIP as a quick flashback where he quits because Batman was too controlling and he needs independence.

    The fifth, in New 52, I think it's also because Dick wants independence. It's never shown, Dick just retold it while reminiscing with Clark. The Nightwing connection with Superman is reestablished.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-21-2019 at 09:53 AM.

  4. #4
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    The third was in Nightwing Year One where he was fired by Bruce for disobeying him. Nightwing Year One changed how Batman approached Jason's origin as well. Basically, he's a lot more of a jerk to both of them than in the 80s.
    Which is sad, because I already found him pretty jerkish in Batman #416. Or course, 1999-sometimes in the 2000s was a very jerkish era for Batman. And even more recently, he's much more so than he was pre-COIE or in the early-middish-90s stuff that I read. Shortly post-Crisis, Batjerk did seem to get laid on pretty heavily, but then maybe backed off a bit and then back in later '90s? Not sure - especially since a lot what I read that era was not actually Batman stories, but him appearing on other people's comics, which mean multiple writers.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I don't think DC knows. Dick's transitioning to Nightwing is one of the big things that the New 52 and Rebirth never showed. They never explained how it happened in spite of all the other things they tried to explain or show. For some reason they never felt the need to show how it happened. I'd be fine with Nightwing Year One being erased from continuity though.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Probably depends on the writer in charge and the day of the week as to what the "current" story behind it is . . .

  7. #7
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    In the New Teen Titans # 1 or maybe DC Comics Presents # 26, Robin is seen living with Batman. Robin dashed by Bruce as he was smoking a pipe and reading a newspaper. So at that point it seemed that Robin and Batman's relationship was intact.

    In the New Teen Titans Robin became Nightwing only because he thought that he was too old to be a sidekick and because he wanted to be his own man. This was one of the main themes of the New Teen Titans. They were older teenagers transitioning into becoming adults.

    Grayson and Wally both quite in new Teen Titans # 39.

    During the Judas Contract storyline it clearly stated that Grayson chose the name Nightwing as a homage to both Batman and Superman.

    During Crisis on Infinite Earths # 12 Wally became the Flash to honor Barry after finding his costume. Before that Wally was dying by using his speed. Something happened on the planet Qward that cured him.

    When Jason first appeared in the New Teen Titans at about 13 years old he did it behind the back of Batman. I believe that this was the beginning of the estrangement between Nightwing and Batman because Jason was gunho and inexperience. When Jason died in Batman a Death in the Family Nightwing confronted Batman in the A Lonely Place of Dying storyline which was a crossover between Batman and the New Teen Titans. Nightwing thought that Batman made a mistake letting Jason become Robin which cause their relationship to further go down hill.

    Soon after the very first Nightwing mini series was published. This probably was the beginning of Nightwing's origin being retcon.
    Last edited by Wakeneuron; 07-22-2019 at 02:42 AM.

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