Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 114
  1. #16
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Comics aren't fascist, but they are authoritarian. Fascism is a very specific subset of authoritarian that is actually rather rare in comics, despite the word being misused often.

    Comics are authoritarian because they are heavily inspired by Christianity, King Arthur stuff, Greek/Norse mythology, etc. None of those things have much use for democracy. All take this as a fundamental truth: that there is an objective morality, the protagonist can see it clearly, and everyone else is blind to it, including the masses. Democracy is synonymous with the masses. Comics are therefore far more comfortable with the Rightful King and his Paladins than Presidents, since the Rightful King and his Paladins can clearly see the one true morality, and the President is just the representative of mob rule and the blind masses.

  2. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    So you found zero examples and are just posting to stir stuff up, good to know.

    Tfst plot point is so stupid it’s not been referred to once since then.
    Aren't you moving your goalposts a little too fast?

    First you say that the dictator of a totalitarian regime Doctor Doom couldn't possibly be fascist because he never called for genocides. When you are provided with a story in which the dictator plans and executes the genocide of mutantkind, you just say "this is stupid" and refuses to acknowledge it.

    What do you gain by doing it? You think the Totalitarian Genocider Dictator Doctor Doom can't possibly be fascist?

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Doom isn't fascist, he's monarchist.

  4. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing Username View Post
    Aren't you moving your goalposts a little too fast?
    1. These are comics. Stories and plot points change as per writer/editor. The rule of thumb is that a story that is stupid and rejected by fans and which later writers downplay or ignore didn’t happen.

    2. The comic itself makes it ambiguous if Doom is responsible or not. Since fellow mutants like Wolverine think it’s bunk.

    In any case, the decimation would not qualify as an act of genocide. What happened there is that Wanda said no more mutants and because of that a huge chunk of mutants lost powers. I.e it didn’t kill them. A lot of mutants who lost powers still survived. That’s still more merciful than the US government of Marvel who sent sentinels to hunt down and murder mutants in cold blood, including children and teenagers

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    10,253

    Default

    Doom never specifically planned M-Day or anything. He just gave Wanda the Life Force knowing it would damage her mind and cause her to do crazy shit.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Bedford UK
    Posts
    9,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Was this peer reviewed?
    In many ways this thesis is being peer reviewed right here and shown severely wanting.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    In many ways this thesis is being peer reviewed right here and shown severely wanting.
    Understatement.

    This thesis is half-baked and is riddled with association and post hoc fallacies.

  8. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    1. These are comics. Stories and plot points change as per writer/editor. The rule of thumb is that a story that is stupid and rejected by fans and which later writers downplay or ignore didn’t happen.
    Don't ask for evidence of this or that if you plan on ignoring it, then. What is your deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In any case, the decimation would not qualify as an act of genocide.
    You really want to die on this hill?

    Doom is a dictator. Doom rules a totalitarian regime. Doom kills dissidents. Doom has planned and executed the erasure of a kind of people due to their gene pool.

    Those are facts. That Nadia Pym, Reed Richards and Valeria Richards see nothing wrong with any of that are also facts.

    You really think that "fascist" is too heavy a word to describe a totalitarian dictator that does all those things?

  9. #24
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing Username View Post

    Doom is a dictator. Doom rules a totalitarian regime. Doom kills dissidents. Doom has planned and executed the erasure of a kind of people due to their gene pool.

    You really think that "fascist" is too heavy a word to describe a totalitarian dictator that does all those things?
    Actually, yes. Fascism is an ideology which leads to actions and not the actions themselves. What you described were all actions taken by various men and women throughout human history.

    Let's take the Qin Dynasty in China for example. It collapsed basically after a generation since A) so much power was concentrated in the emperor and B) madness from drinking mercury. Dissidents were punched with the death sentence of being force to work on the Great Wall. And let's not forget the blood bath of conquests and anti-Mongolian sentiment under basically all of Chinese history.

  10. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Doom never specifically planned M-Day or anything. He just gave Wanda the Life Force knowing it would damage her mind and cause her to do crazy shit.
    Exactly this. It might not make any sense, but he was wanting her to lose it, so he could take on the power himself. I'm not sure why he couldn't have just wielded the power from the very beginning. But comics...
    Was Curlytop

  11. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing Username View Post
    Don't ask for evidence of this or that if you plan on ignoring it, then. What is your deal?
    My deal is that you seem to hate Doom and are coating this thread with click bait title and pretentious statements to justify it. Hating Doom is fine. It’s your right. You would be in the company of talented writers like Waid. But don’t do it by making dumb statements.

    Dr. Doom is the creation of two Jewish artists, one of whom is a world war 2 veteran and none of them ever saw or presented Doom as a fascist. If you did research you would know tha
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 07-21-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,678

    Arrow

    I think the OP is misusing the term so it can be applied to characters who do not fit the accepted criteria for being fascists of fascistic.

    For clarification purposes here is how the Encyclopedia Britannica defines Fascism -

    "....Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation...."

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/fascism
    Last edited by Celgress; 07-21-2019 at 12:52 PM.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Actually, yes. Fascism is an ideology which leads to actions and not the actions themselves. What you described were all actions taken by various men and women throughout human history.
    So Doctor Doom isn't a fascist, he is just a totalitarian ruler that does exactly what fascist rulers do?

    That is a way to cope, I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Dr. Doom is the creation of two Jewish artists, one of whom is a world war 2 veteran and none of them ever saw or presented Doom as a fascist. If you did research you would know that.
    This is bizarre. This is like saying that Darkseid can't posdibly be fascist because he was created by Jack Kirby.

    Doom is a villain. Is it impossible for jewish creators to write fascist even if they are villains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I think the OP is misusing the term so it can be applied to characters who do not fit the accepted criteria for being fascists of fascistic.

    For clarification purposes here is how the Encyclopedia Britannica defines Fascism -

    "....Although fascist parties and movements differed significantly from one another, they had many characteristics in common, including extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: “people’s community”), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation..."
    What here doesn't fit Doctor Doom and Latveria?
    Last edited by Missing Username; 07-21-2019 at 12:54 PM.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Bedford UK
    Posts
    9,630

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Understatement.

    This thesis is half-baked and is riddled with association and post hoc fallacies.
    Absolutely, as are some of the rebuttals, which is kind of my point
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  15. #30
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing Username View Post
    So Doctor Doom isn't a fascist, he is just a totalitarian ruler that does exactly what fascist rulers do?

    That is a way to cope, I guess
    If you had bothered to read my post, you would have noted that fascism is an ideology and what you had listed are actions.

    Not all dictators are fascists but all fascists are dictators.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •