Storm's status as a X-Men leader

[Havok83]

What ever happened to Sunspot's ability to generate concussive solar blasts or his Askani influence?

Nothing. Its all still there

[butterflykyss]

Exactly right. The same people who are fine with Storm being demoted to underling would be pissed if it was Cyclops who was taking orders from Kitty. They didn't like the whole decide by committee thing in the recent Uncanny issues. But their fallback excuse for that is "Cyclops is so tied to being leader, its the only thing he has going for him". But Storm is fine if she's subservient to Kitty and God forbid Emma.

hello?? my friend I dont understand why though. what is acceptable for Ororo would never be tolerated if it is cyclops. I mean is it because she is a woman or black or both? I dont know but I find it odd we have this level of rationalization of treatment that should not, imo, be acceptable yet I know if cyclops was shown as being anything other than a leader we would see continual posta about boycotting the xmen. it's a double standard but I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees this.

[Glio]

Storm is a fantastic leader. In fact, I think that is one of the problems narratively speaking. She has a good relationship with virtually all X-men and is rarely questioned in her decisions. If I were a X-Men I would love Storm to be my leader, if I were a writer I would not know very well what to do with her. She doesn't generate much conflict or dramatic tension being such a unanimous leader.

[Ororo101]

Hi beloved. I think those of you who are excited for this should be and I hope the book lives up to your expectations but I'm not falling for anymore of the snake oil the xoffices have in regards to treating this character with respect. Again I ask you, how is cyclops being shown? Is he on a team where he is being led by one of the younger members of the xmen? That he once himself trained? I cant be hyped for something that in its surface looks to be a slap in a face to the character I love. However, I hope the book lives up to some of those expectations.

Haha believe me darling, excited is definitely not the word for what I am. Hopefully ambivalent would be a better term. I’m jaded from fatigue over how she’s been handled in recent years as well by the X office. I don’t even believe she’ll play the biggest role in tomorrow’s or any of the HoX/PoX issues. Hence why I’m not “excited” for them more so as I am interested to see what this new take will be, and how it will lead the X-men into the future. Ororo May get more direct shine later on when she’s on Marauders since it’s a smaller team but there’s going to be over 90 mutants in H/PoX so I’m not enthusiastic about a lot for her. Just interested to see where things go and if it’s a good story in general. We haven’t had good X-men stories in so long it’s hard to remember sometimes what made them so great. I want good stories with solid developments that progress the franchise out of this stagnant muck and then and only THEN do I want Ororo potentially folded in. If it’s not gonna be worth her stock, I’d rather not have her involved and she can/should stay over with Coates. When I get excited over the story, then I’ll allow the possibility of enthusiasm over Ororo joining. That’s the main reason why I want to wait and see how this plays out across the board.

[Havok83]

Storm is a fantastic leader. In fact, I think that is one of the problems narratively speaking. She has a good relationship with virtually all X-men and is rarely questioned in her decisions. If I were a X-Men I would love Storm to be my leader, if I were a writer I would not know very well what to do with her. She doesn't generate much conflict or dramatic tension being such a unanimous leader.

that has never been a problem until she returned to that role in the Schism era. Claremont and writers after him had no issue writing her as an interesting and compelling leader

[butterflykyss]

Haha believe me darling, excited is definitely not the word for what I am. Hopefully ambivalent would be a better term. I’m jaded from fatigue over how she’s been handled in recent years as well by the X office. I don’t even believe she’ll play the biggest role in tomorrow’s or any of the HoX/PoX issues. Hence why I’m not “excited” for them more so as I am interested to see what this new take will be, and how it will lead the X-men into the future. Ororo May get more direct shine later on when she’s on Marauders since it’s a smaller team but there’s going to be over 90 mutants in H/PoX so I’m not enthusiastic about a lot for her. Just interested to see where things go and if it’s a good story in general. We haven’t had good X-men stories in so long it’s hard to remember sometimes what made them so great. I want good stories with solid developments that progress the franchise out of this stagnant muck and then and only THEN do I want Ororo potentially folded in. If it’s not gonna be worth her stock, I’d rather not have her involved and she can/should stay over with Coates. When I get excited over the story, then I’ll allow the possibility of enthusiasm over Ororo joining. That’s the main reason why I want to wait and see how this plays out across the board.

I think it's fair to take this approach. I would love there to be good xmen stories too as I'm in the camp that believes there have not been any good ones in a long time but I've been down this road too many times. I remember after the marriage was annulled the xoffices said they had big things in store for ororo but that only resulted in her being a headmistress of school that ultimately led to her going to war during IvX and passing to torch to kitty in gold. It's not being pessimistic for the sake of it; the past experiences exhibited by the xoffices is why I am not on board and what I know of the premise of the book solidifies that sentiment. but you are my boo thang so I hope I am wrong in this skecptism.

[butterflykyss]

that has never been a problem until she returned to that role in the Schism era. Claremont and writers after him had no issue writing her as an interesting and compelling leader

agreed
10char

[Omega Alpha]

Storm is a fantastic leader. In fact, I think that is one of the problems narratively speaking. She has a good relationship with virtually all X-men and is rarely questioned in her decisions. If I were a X-Men I would love Storm to be my leader, if I were a writer I would not know very well what to do with her. She doesn't generate much conflict or dramatic tension being such a unanimous leader.

This is one issue that's happening, repeatedly with female leaders in the X-books- Kitty in Gold and Jean in Red saw that too. No one ever questions the decisions like Cyclops' are, or even as some Avengers, like Iron Man or Hawkeye, question Cap. America's decisions. I don't know if because the writers like the characters too much or they're afraid of being accused of sexism (they aren't mutually exclusive).

[jwatson]

I can "complain" about it just as some are praising the book without knowing what the book will be about. II'm not trying to change anyone's mind; I'm simply expressing to the community here why some storm fans would not be ok with the premise of the book based upon all that we know at this point. At this point I'm not going based upon speculation or hypotheticals. I going on simply what has been told to us by the xoffices which is Ororo will be a pirate on a boat led by kitty which is funded by Emma. I dont have to to speculate about anything that will or wont happen. As I have said, if this was cyclops being solicited as being a team member on a pirate ship led by kitty I dont think people would be making the case for waiting to see what happens in the book. What I literally know is what I, and others have issue with so I'm not sure what is the problem.



Hi beloved. I think those of you who are excited for this should be and I hope the book lives up to your expectations but I'm not falling for anymore of the snake oil the xoffices have in regards to treating this character with respect. Again I ask you, how is cyclops being shown? Is he on a team where he is being led by one of the younger members of the xmen? That he once himself trained? I cant be hyped for something that in its surface looks to be a slap in a face to the character I love. However, I hope the book lives up to some of those expectations.

No one said you can't complain but complaining about the same thing over and over does give the impression your trying to change minds. Otherwise why do you keep stressing the same exact point you already made over and over again. And you are speculating on what will or won't happen because you are assuming Storm is there to be an underling for Emma and Kitty when she could actually be there to be a foil to Emma. Again as you said we don't know anything outside of boat, kitty captain, funded by emma but somehow it has turned into speculation about continued disrespect of Storm and crossed over into speculation about how other people would feel if it was about insert character here. But again, i'm not telling you what not to do but just as you are free to give your view on what you think might happen i'm free to give my view on what i'm actually reading and seeing here and the spamming going on to prove the same point over and over. We get it.

[butterflykyss]

No one said you can't complain but complaining about the same thing over and over does give the impression your trying to change minds. Otherwise why do you keep stressing the same exact point you already made over and over again. And you are speculating on what will or won't happen because you are assuming Storm is there to be an underling for Emma and Kitty when she could actually be there to be a foil to Emma. Again as you said we don't know anything outside of boat, kitty captain, funded by emma but somehow it has turned into speculation about continued disrespect of Storm and crossed over into speculation about how other people would feel if it was about insert character here. But again, i'm not telling you what not to do but just as you are free to give your view on what you think might happen i'm free to give my view on what i'm actually reading and seeing here and the spamming going on to prove the same point over and over. We get it.

I'm literally responding to your and others' posts. You expressed excitement for the book, great. I expressed the contrary, ok. Then I get replies to my comment which I then respond to. It's not complaining in the sense you are conveying but dialogue in which we differ. Again whatever your or anyones perception of my posts does not mean it's true. But since we seem to be on the same page that neither one of us is trying to convince the other I guess we can move on from this particular discussion.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Le sigh. Can't believe nobody's tried to defuse this trainwreck by joking about Kitty/Storm/Emma becoming the new Cyclops/Xavier/Magneto.

[LordAllMIghty]

hello?? my friend I dont understand why though. what is acceptable for Ororo would never be tolerated if it is cyclops. I mean is it because she is a woman or black or both? I dont know but I find it odd we have this level of rationalization of treatment that should not, imo, be acceptable yet I know if cyclops was shown as being anything other than a leader we would see continual posta about boycotting the xmen. it's a double standard but I'm glad I'm not the only one here who sees this.

Truth. So much truth. The only X-Leaders that should be over Storm are Xaiver and depending on the situations...Cyclops.

This is when i knew Storm time as a serious leader of the X-Men was in decline in the X-Office
RCO014_1468847182.jpg

That last part was a big WTF moment...

[Havok83]

Truth. So much truth. The only X-Leaders that should be over Storm are Xaiver and depending on the situations...Cyclops.

This is when i knew Storm time as a serious leader of the X-Men was in decline in the X-Office
RCO014_1468847182.jpg

That last part was a big WTF moment...

they promptly got rid of Scott in the next arc and made her the sole leader up until Claremont's return a few years later. I think the real decline happened when he returned and demoted her behind Gambit and Rogue

[Maestroneto]

they promptly got rid of Scott in the next arc and made her the sole leader up until Claremont's return a few years later. I think the real decline happened when he returned and demoted her behind Gambit and Rogue

When did he do that? Storm had a team in XXM and Uncanny up until she decided to live a lavish life in Wakanda.

[yogaflame]

they promptly got rid of Scott in the next arc and made her the sole leader up until Claremont's return a few years later. I think the real decline happened when he returned and demoted her behind Gambit and Rogue

Lobdell's Storm was the beginning of the decline(or rather, Claremont's dismissal from the franchise). He openly admitted he didn't understand her as a character, but to be fair, editorial kept the pressure on him and other writers in the 90's to at least attempt to make Storm a central character and leader, even if they weren't particularly good at it. When Claremont came in I'm pretty sure editorial mandated that Gambit and Rogue be made the new squad leaders to spice things up. That said, Claremont's run with Gambit, Cable, Storm, Jean, and Beast is fairly solid. Gambit wasn't overbearing like Gold's Kitty. He had a squad of seasoned professionals, all his senior, but their team was operating in that capacity where everyone contributed and was a respected equal. Plus that run only lasted for a few issues anyways. And then we reset things and eventually got the Morrison/Claremont era which was fantastic.

The real decline in Storm's leadership among the X-Men started precisely after that era. Once New/X-Treme were basically over and Claremont was forced to give up Storm to BP's office, that is where Storm lost her footing among the X-Men. Emma and Cyke were in the momma and poppa bear position, and Storm was just off doing her Queen thing in Wakanda(where she never truly developed her own authority; it was always T'Challa's burden, or Shuri's, even, when T'Challa was incapacitated by Doom). She was not really in charge in Wakanda, and she was not at all in charge back with the X-Men, despite various attempts to reconcile those two distinct spheres(such as the fun but ultimately pointless Worlds Apart, or her various cameos in the main books, and later peripheral runs in Astonishing or X-Men Vol 3/X-Women). Of course, by the time AvX smashed Rightclops down and destroyed the T'Challa marriage, Wolverine had already firmly ascended to headmaster/uberleaderdom, so even once Storm came back to the team full time and was even appointed headmistress/leader again, it was only a hollow title(and in many ways undercut by her and Logan hooking up all of a sudden). Gone was the ambitious determined stateswoman we last saw in Claremont's XSE, brimming with power and an edge of danger. It only got worse with IvX. Claremont's Storm would have never backed down from a freaking Cloud, or Blackbolt/Medusa. Please.

Now, ultimately, we got spoiled by Claremont's X-Men. Such familiarity, such attention to detail. One voice stretching over decades. So much commercial and artistic success. No one has been able to raise the X-Men to such heights since, and certainly no one has been able to write such a compelling Storm since. Every new team loves to promise great things, and they have all failed.

We'll see what Hickman and co have in store for Storm, but honestly it doesn't appear like she's much of a priority; and as neglected as her character has been since the XSE era, that doesn't bode well for her recovery. I do think we are going to have to wait until Feige lights the sky on fire with his MCU Ororo for the publishing side to wake up to her squandered potential, but I am open to being surprised in the meantime.