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  1. #1
    Spectacular Member OceanStar's Avatar
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    Default Cap/ Peggy vs Thanos/Death

    So I was thinking, what Cap did any different than Thanos love for Death? Are both selfish?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanStar View Post
    So I was thinking, what Cap did any different than Thanos love for Death? Are both selfish?
    Are you talking about Endgame? Thanos didn't do anything for Death in the movie.

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    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OceanStar View Post
    So I was thinking, what Cap did any different than Thanos love for Death? Are both selfish?
    I assume you’re comparing Endgame-the-movie to the Infinity Guantlet comic series. And to answer your question, no, not even a little bit. To even pose this question is absurd.

    1) Thanos is a Deviant, BORN a sociopath. He killed BILLIONS of people for Death because she was short on souls. Cap (and the others) SAVED billions of people, you get the distinction? One was death and one was life (<- couldn’t resist).

    2) Although shippers with their little Stucky obsession disagree with me (Bucky was a CHILD when they met in the comics. I’m fully supportive of more LGBTQ representation in these films AND the comics but that particular ship is a hard no for me. It would make more sense to pair Steve with Sam, at least that one ship doesn’t come with child grooming connotations) Steve going back in time to be with Peggy, while wildly out-of-character [insert Waid’s panel about Steve saying he can’t live in the past because that’s where the fossils come from here] it didn’t result in the death of billions of people. It didn’t even change anything, it created a new timeline. The Russo’s, this past weekend at SDCC, stated themselves that Steve spent his time in the new universe saving Bucky from Hydra and stopping Hydra’s infiltration of SHIELD and whatnot. So even in the new universe Steve is saving lives not taking them.

    Good lord the stuff that is posted here sometimes.

  4. #4
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    I assume you’re comparing Endgame-the-movie to the Infinity Guantlet comic series. And to answer your question, no, not even a little bit. To even pose this question is absurd.

    1) Thanos is a Deviant, BORN a sociopath. He killed BILLIONS of people for Death because she was short on souls. Cap (and the others) SAVED billions of people, you get the distinction? One was death and one was life (<- couldn’t resist).

    2) Although shippers with their little Stucky obsession disagree with me (Bucky was a CHILD when they met in the comics. I’m fully supportive of more LGBTQ representation in these films AND the comics but that particular ship is a hard no for me. It would make more sense to pair Steve with Sam, at least that one ship doesn’t come with child grooming connotations) Steve going back in time to be with Peggy, while wildly out-of-character [insert Waid’s panel about Steve saying he can’t live in the past because that’s where the fossils come from here] it didn’t result in the death of billions of people. It didn’t even change anything, it created a new timeline. The Russo’s, this past weekend at SDCC, stated themselves that Steve spent his time in the new universe saving Bucky from Hydra and stopping Hydra’s infiltration of SHIELD and whatnot. So even in the new universe Steve is saving lives not taking them.

    Good lord the stuff that is posted here sometimes.
    I believe Steve and Bucky being the same age in the MCU comes from Ultimate Marvel also making them the same age in that version of Steve's backstory, though I otherwise agree with you that Steve going back in time to (finally) live his life with the woman he loved while still fighting for a better tomorrow for everyone, not just himself, does not put him anywhere near Thanos on moral grounds. And yeah, if we're gonna have slash pairings with Steve, might as well go with Sam (who should appear in the comics more often, especially with what's been happening in the current Captain America run), or even Tony/Iron Man, for crying out loud. In fact, there's a universe out there where they did get married, though Tony was a woman in that universe, so maybe that doesn't quite count.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    1) Thanos is a Deviant, BORN a sociopath. He killed BILLIONS of people for Death because she was short on souls. Cap (and the others) SAVED billions of people, you get the distinction? One was death and one was life (<- couldn’t resist).
    I'd also argue that Death was fairly emotionally abusive towards Thanos. She would constantly DENNIS system the shit out of him. During Infinity Gauntlet, she routinely alternated between Neglecting Emotionally and Inspiring Hope until Thanos became her equal and superior. Then she more or less tried to separate entirely.
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    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I'd also argue that Death was fairly emotionally abusive towards Thanos. She would constantly DENNIS system the shit out of him. During Infinity Gauntlet, she routinely alternated between Neglecting Emotionally and Inspiring Hope until Thanos became her equal and superior. Then she more or less tried to separate entirely.
    Hmm, DENNIS system? Just curious.
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  7. #7
    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Hmm, DENNIS system? Just curious.
    I’m curious what this means as well, I’ve not heard the term before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I believe Steve and Bucky being the same age in the MCU comes from Ultimate Marvel also making them the same age in that version of Steve's backstory, though I otherwise agree with you that Steve going back in time to (finally) live his life with the woman he loved while still fighting for a better tomorrow for everyone, not just himself, does not put him anywhere near Thanos on moral grounds. And yeah, if we're gonna have slash pairings with Steve, might as well go with Sam (who should appear in the comics more often, especially with what's been happening in the current Captain America run), or even Tony/Iron Man, for crying out loud. In fact, there's a universe out there where they did get married, though Tony was a woman in that universe, so maybe that doesn't quite count.
    Yeah, I remember that panel. One of Reed’s alternative realities where Civil War went differently if I’m not mistaken? I love Steve and it wouldn’t matter to me who he dated: male, female, them/they, alien, just so long as he’s happy. And I totally get, representation-wise, why it would be important to have a major character come out as LGBTQ, I just draw the line at him ending up with someone he practically raised. As a parent my immediate response to that is “no way”. Granted you’d have to be a comics reader to get why I’m upset by the idea and as you mentioned most who ship that pair probably aren’t. In the MCU they were the same age, too, they took Arnie Roth’s background and gave it to Bucky. I can’t turn it off though, my frame of reference for Cap is 616, even when watching the MCU I’m automatically kind of knee-jerk seeing Steve through that lense and comparing, so yeah any pair but that one. And I only mentioned that pair to begin with because, at least on Twitter, that group seems the most upset by Steve’s ending in Endgame. Or, at least, the most vocal about it.

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  9. #9
    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    Thank you. That was educational. I'm a bit horrified. Okay, more than a bit. I *am* horrified. As for Death, yeah, I can kind of see why this was brought up in relation to what she did to Thanos. Not that it excuses Thanos' behavior in any way, mind.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member L.R Johansson's Avatar
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    EDIT2:

    On another note - NO - you're wrong, OP - absolutely ludicrous basis for a thread.

    Cap didn't just do things for himself - he obviously took good care to make sure that events unfolded as they should - only at the very end of his journey did he deviate, finally getting his just reward for a literal life-time of service. The new Universe wasn't branched off until he was done - ergo, Cap's original time-line still holds up, as can be seen with the fact that Sam and Buck were still waiting for him. (and nothing changed - people were still resurrected)

    If he was really selfish, then he would have made it so that he would never have gone into the ice to begin with, not sleeping away a century - obviously he still did.

    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Thank you. That was educational. I'm a bit horrified. Okay, more than a bit. I *am* horrified. As for Death, yeah, I can kind of see why this was brought up in relation to what she did to Thanos. Not that it excuses Thanos' behavior in any way, mind.
    I'd say Thanos and Death kind of both... deserve each other - since they are both terrible people.

    I suppose with Death it makes sense, there's no way one can be a good person and do the job she has - Death has to be deceitful, unpredictable - it's her very nature to come and go, to dance around everyone else, until, one day, she will finally strike. Heck, if we look at the way so many can sometimes be in tremendous pain for so long, longing for death, but she never comes... the agony persisting until a very, very bitter end, when she deigns to show herself, then yes... that is Death's way - she is many things.

    The whole thing get a little bit more complicated though... since Thanos is already, anyways, obviously:

    1. A stalker.

    2. A psychopath.

    3. Insane. (more below)

    If we take into account some of the comics written in recent years (like Thanos origin) regarding Thanos, we find that he has a tendency to hallucinate - which means that some of the things Death has done to him, may not actually BE her fault...! Some of it is actually all in his head.

    In Annihilation, it was also hinted that perhaps one of the reasons why Death cannot quite accept Thanos, is because he likes her a little bit TOO much...! There, it is hinted that she likes people like Annihilus better, because he not only worships her and carries her name forward, but he's also scared sh*t-less of her, and tries to keep her at arms length. (although Annihilus is called the ""The Living Death Who Walks", he is also obsessed with living forever and staving off death)

    She wants her lovers to also be SCARED of her... so that she can be in a position of power - alas, that's not happening with Thanos, since he's more or less the same, in that regard.

    My final conclusion is that Thanos and Death has a hate-love relationship - on and off, where they both at times reject, yet also come back to each other.


    EDIT:

    Jeez... the Dennis system... Spookily enough, I think I've seen actual real-world books/methods where the authors tout similar manipulative behaviour to get a mate. : [
    Last edited by L.R Johansson; 07-23-2019 at 01:46 AM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Thank you. That was educational. I'm a bit horrified. Okay, more than a bit. I *am* horrified. As for Death, yeah, I can kind of see why this was brought up in relation to what she did to Thanos. Not that it excuses Thanos' behavior in any way, mind.
    Yeah, it's supposed to be super creepy (really, all the characters in Always Sunny in Philadelphia are supposed to be irredeemable) and it's also not supposed to be at all a defense of Thanos who ends up just as bad (or arguably worse since we assume cosmic entities are essential to our universe) once he gains god-like powers. Although, for the rest of Starlin's time with the character, he more or less learns his lesson and doesn't continue down that path.
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  12. #12
    Incredible Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    Yeah, it's supposed to be super creepy (really, all the characters in Always Sunny in Philadelphia are supposed to be irredeemable) and it's also not supposed to be at all a defense of Thanos who ends up just as bad (or arguably worse since we assume cosmic entities are essential to our universe) once he gains god-like powers. Although, for the rest of Starlin's time with the character, he more or less learns his lesson and doesn't continue down that path.
    True enough. He did work with the heroes in Infinity War (though, again, not that it excuses what he did, but there were larger things at stake at the time). I'll forever be salty that we never got to see Magus, the evil doppelganger Avengers and Cap and Thanos arguing over who gets to be boss in the MCU when they decided to tackle Stalin's work. Oh, and the back and forth between Kang and Doom.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.R Johansson View Post
    EDIT2:

    The whole thing get a little bit more complicated though... since Thanos is already, anyways, obviously:

    1. A stalker.

    2. A psychopath.

    3. Insane. (more below)

    [
    Pretty much this. I mean, he was literally born that way. I wonder if the Eternals movie is going to tackle that at all, re: Deviant gene, and I wonder if they are going to tie it all to the Celestials. Should be interesting. If they tie the Eternals to the Celestials, and if they do some kind of equivalent to Kronos's experiment, it could be a way to introduce mutants into the MCU. Just thinking out-loud.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I'd also argue that Death was fairly emotionally abusive towards Thanos. She would constantly DENNIS system the shit out of him. During Infinity Gauntlet, she routinely alternated between Neglecting Emotionally and Inspiring Hope until Thanos became her equal and superior. Then she more or less tried to separate entirely.
    Eh... I think emotionally abusive might be a bit too strong.

    Since they weren't actually in a relationship at the time (except maybe in Thanos mind), I think she had a right to be distant once he came up with his own plan behind her back.

    But in the least Death does seem like a tease. She tends to show more interest when he doesn't, and vice versa.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Overhazard's Avatar
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    Steve is just a guy who wanted to be with his girl, Peggy genuinely loved him back.
    Thanos on the other hand....is a cosmic neckbeard who's so thirsty Drake would tell him to chill out.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Cap retired he fought in the war and he spent several years having the world after the ice. You have to figure he did some small scale heroics at least once he went back.

    Thanks tried to wipe out half the universe. The movie skips the gift to death part.

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