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  1. #1
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    Default Pegasus Seiya (Netflix) vs. Wonder Woman (DCEU)

    Seiya, from Netflix's Knights of the Zodiac Saint Seiya series, takes on the DCEU incarnation of Wonder Woman. Who wins?

  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    So, I've not watched the Netflix show, but Seiya in the manga and stuff is like "I casually crack mach with my fists before I even get access to my real powers,"

    If Netflix is even remotely in the same ballpark, I imagine Diana having issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    So, I've not watched the Netflix show, but Seiya in the manga and stuff is like "I casually crack mach with my fists before I even get access to my real powers,"

    If Netflix is even remotely in the same ballpark, I imagine Diana having issues.
    That's pretty fast. Striking/strength feats? I understand you only know the manga stuff, but I'm just curious.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
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    Our war would yield countless dead
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    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    That's pretty fast. Striking/strength feats? I understand you only know the manga stuff, but I'm just curious.
    Like chapter 1 Seiya learns to punch faster mach 1.

    He also then punches the ground hard enough he makes like... a crater the size of a minivan.

    That's from the word go. Once he gets his armour, he gets faster and fights dudes who do things like reverse waterfalls by dragon kicking them real good.

    Again, I don't know the Netflix version, I watched the trailer on my lunch break there seems to be bullet timing and some level enhanced strength in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Like chapter 1 Seiya learns to punch faster mach 1.

    He also then punches the ground hard enough he makes like... a crater the size of a minivan.

    That's from the word go. Once he gets his armour, he gets faster and fights dudes who do things like reverse waterfalls by dragon kicking them real good.
    I've seen the first five episodes. It's not too different from what you describe (I want to watch the original anime but can't find it on-line. I thought I'd watch the Netflix series to tide me over).

    For example in episode three Seiya defeated Dragon Long. That's this guy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    dudes who do things like reverse waterfalls by dragon kicking them real good.
    He did so by exploiting a gap in his attack to land strikes to his heart. Said gap lasted one one-thousandth of a second. That's how fast Seiya is.

    Also in episode four he showed that his attacks can destroy military helicopters and Bullheads. Seiya can likewise withstand multiple attacks that can do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Again, I don't know the Netflix version, I watched the trailer on my lunch break there seems to be bullet timing and some level enhanced strength in there.
    There is.

    All in all I'd say Wonder Woman gets washed.
    Last edited by hareluyafan1; 07-23-2019 at 07:29 AM.

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    Isn't DCEU Wondie also a bullet timer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Isn't DCEU Wondie also a bullet timer?
    Bullet timing =/= breaking mach with your fists with no powers and getting stronger from there which is still in this version.

    DCEU Wondy is really fast and strong but it sounds like she's just a bit outclassed here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Bullet timing =/= breaking mach with your fists with no powers and getting stronger from there which is still in this version.

    DCEU Wondy is really fast and strong but it sounds like she's just a bit outclassed here.
    I'm pretty sure he had his powers when he did his Ryuseiken, he just didn't fully learn how to control them yet

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Bullet timing =/= breaking mach with your fists with no powers and getting stronger from there which is still in this version.

    DCEU Wondy is really fast and strong but it sounds like she's just a bit outclassed here.
    Bullets break the sound barrier with boring regularity. The speed of sound is roughly 1125 feet per second at standard temperature and pressure (sea level). That speed will vary a bit depending on your elevation, climate and weather conditions, but not much.

    She can scoot in a crouch across a floor blocking many dozens of these rounds by throwing her arms to intercept. I dont get the impression his speed would particularly overwhelm her.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Bullets break the sound barrier with boring regularity. The speed of sound is roughly 1125 feet per second at standard temperature and pressure (sea level). That speed will vary a bit depending on your elevation, climate and weather conditions, but not much.

    She can scoot in a crouch across a floor blocking many dozens of these rounds by throwing her arms to intercept. I dont get the impression his speed would particularly overwhelm her.
    You're baiting me into harder numbers here.

    Diana moving her arms the short distance to block bullets doesn't mean she has to move at literally bullet level speeds. In the scene with the guying trying to shoot the full auto, she has to move faster than he can track the barrel (way slower than mach or bullet speed) ad move her arms the much shorter distance to blocking than the bullet has to travel to get to her. It's a great speed feat but it's not evidence that she can move and react to something sentient that moves at that speed.

    Seiya, prior to getting into his full powers with the armour, has to literally move his arms at fast than the speed of sound to do his most basic technique. That is faster than Diana has been shown to be.

    My personal take is that she can react to him enough to be like "Oh, this is problem," but she ultimately can't keep up with him long term. I don't think it's like... a clean sweep exactly but Seiya has all the advantages here.

    As noted though, this is going purely by the manga which I've read a fair bit of. The Netflix version might change things.
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  11. #11
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    During the mercenary attack sequence, all of the knights were pretty casually making sure that the bullets only hit their armor. I don't think that Wondy has a speed advantage here.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    You're baiting me into harder numbers here.

    Diana moving her arms the short distance to block bullets doesn't mean she has to move at literally bullet level speeds. In the scene with the guying trying to shoot the full auto, she has to move faster than he can track the barrel (way slower than mach or bullet speed) ad move her arms the much shorter distance to blocking than the bullet has to travel to get to her. It's a great speed feat but it's not evidence that she can move and react to something sentient that moves at that speed.

    Seiya, prior to getting into his full powers with the armour, has to literally move his arms at fast than the speed of sound to do his most basic technique. That is faster than Diana has been shown to be.

    My personal take is that she can react to him enough to be like "Oh, this is problem," but she ultimately can't keep up with him long term. I don't think it's like... a clean sweep exactly but Seiya has all the advantages here.

    As noted though, this is going purely by the manga which I've read a fair bit of. The Netflix version might change things.
    Just for fun, I am going to keep playing devils advocate and giving you a hard time ;P

    I've taken the liberty of slowing the terrorist gunman scene down and uploading the footage. I want you to pay special attention to the positioning of her eyes and face.
    https://youtu.be/KSoHjFWE9uY

    As you can see, she almost exclusively is staring down the length of the hostages and almost never at the gunman. Most of the bullets she blocks or pushes people out of the way from are being reacted to only when they pass into her narrow field of vision. She is not really staring at the gun and reacting to the bullets as they move the length of the room. She is literally reacting as they arrive - in some cases blocking while backwards or barely looking out of her peripherals. It's pretty ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fallman View Post
    During the mercenary attack sequence, all of the knights were pretty casually making sure that the bullets only hit their armor. I don't think that Wondy has a speed advantage here.
    I don't think she has an advantage. I dont even think she is faster. Just not so much slower as to be overwhelmed. Not blitzed so much as just not having the winning edge.

    My real argument is one of two things:

    1- She eats a few blows to manage to get one crucial retaliatory sword strike in - rope a dope style maybe. Her tanking Ares initial explosion in the guard tower means she isn't getting put down in a single blow, but more like a string of combos. She might last long enough to use her range with the sword at least once. I doubt she loses 10/10 this way although she may lose the majority.

    2- This is the less exciting fight strategy but the better odds of winning come from it. At 100 feet starting distance, she can spam her AoE and pin the guy down. Just keep it up while slowly closing the gap. I have NO idea how durable this dude is, but I get the impression it should start adding up.

    He have any projectiles?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Just for fun, I am going to keep playing devils advocate and giving you a hard time ;P

    I've taken the liberty of slowing the terrorist gunman scene down and uploading the footage. I want you to pay special attention to the positioning of her eyes and face.
    https://youtu.be/KSoHjFWE9uY

    As you can see, she almost exclusively is staring down the length of the hostages and almost never at the gunman. Most of the bullets she blocks or pushes people out of the way from are being reacted to only when they pass into her narrow field of vision. She is not really staring at the gun and reacting to the bullets as they move the length of the room. She is literally reacting as they arrive - in some cases blocking while backwards or barely looking out of her peripherals. It's pretty ridiculous.



    I don't think she has an advantage. I dont even think she is faster. Just not so much slower as to be overwhelmed. Not blitzed so much as just not having the winning edge.

    My real argument is one of two things:

    1- She eats a few blows to manage to get one crucial retaliatory sword strike in - rope a dope style maybe. Her tanking Ares initial explosion in the guard tower means she isn't getting put down in a single blow, but more like a string of combos. She might last long enough to use her range with the sword at least once. I doubt she loses 10/10 this way although she may lose the majority.

    2- This is the less exciting fight strategy but the better odds of winning come from it. At 100 feet starting distance, she can spam her AoE and pin the guy down. Just keep it up while slowly closing the gap. I have NO idea how durable this dude is, but I get the impression it should start adding up.

    He have any projectiles?
    Seiya's signature move is the Pegasus Ryuseiken, where he punches the air so fast that it ignites the air and sends fire balls flying at the opponent.

    In the Netflix version it just looks like a volley of energy blasts, but they are explicitly referred to as punches

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    Seiya's signature move is the Pegasus Ryuseiken, where he punches the air so fast that it ignites the air and sends fire balls flying at the opponent.

    In the Netflix version it just looks like a volley of energy blasts, but they are explicitly referred to as punches
    .....ya see this is an issue. Mach speed is one thing but "I set air on fire with my punch speed" is totally another lol.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  15. #15
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    Slightly off topic, how is the Netflix Saint Seiya?

    I'm not a big fan of the animation style.
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