HoX Omega Level Mutant: Definition and list *spoilers*

[PsychoEFrost]

potential to grow infinte or the upper limit.



Jean is the top on telepathy and the difference with Emma shouldn't be small

It is though. Jean and Emma are both much stronger than Charles and Rachel, who would be next on the list.

[RachelGrey]

It is though. Jean and Emma are both much stronger than Charles and Rachel, who would be next on the list.

Yeah I think the X-Psychics would be in this order Jean > Emma > Rachel > Charles >= Quentin > Elizabeth

I might move Elizabeth up about Charles since Elizabeth was more capable of handling the Shadow King than Charles was.

[LordAllMIghty]

Please don't start a who is the most powerful telepath conversation...they never end well. Lol

[RachelGrey]

Please don't start a who is the most powerful telepath conversation...they never end well. Lol

I love the four female telepaths (Jean, Emma, Rachel, and Elizabeth), they are some of my favorite characters. But yeah I know it can stir things up a bit doing comparisons like that.

[JKtheMac]

I think some of the people listed are there not because of what they've done so far but what they can do. It's the unlimited potential or whatever, so even if they are not as impressive yet they can keep getting stronger without any limit holding them back.

That being said I'm salty Xavier and Emma are no longer Omega Telepaths.

I think it’s an interesting thing to think about. Whether this is about Xavier seeing potential.

It’s partly because I am so creeped out by ‘camp, cult-leader, messiah, gardener Xavier’ and don’t trust him at all. I mean, as a fan of early comics I have always thought of Xavier as a villain in hero’s clothing, and as I learnt more about narrative structure I realised he was often both an antagonist and also a perhaps overly tempting and convenient way to wrap up loose ends at the end of an issue.

So that being said, seeing Xavier apparently bring mutants from the past back, in Invasion of the Bodysnatchers style, I couldn’t help making the leap that he has been recording everything with Cerebro. That far from just using Cerebro as a way of locating mutants and the normal dodgy associations with Cerebro, a device that could only be created by a megalomaniacal control freak, but he has been recording, analysing, and effectively classifying everyone and worse laying a contingency for possibly turning Cerebro into a Dr Who Lungbarrow style Loom (that’s a deep cut, but think gene splicing from multiple parents).

Let’s face it, the whole classification system is based on Xavier’s meticulous calibrations of a piece of technology that invades privacy. From an era when we didn’t all carry GPS tracking devices with us. So does he understand the potential of mutant powers better than any of us? Has he run experiments on models of actual mutant’s powers and personalities? Has he tested their powers quietly in the Danger Room in the early hours? Is Krakoa not so much a brand new technology, but instead just him pulling the trigger on something he has been holding in reserve for years?

I wonder if Xavier’s limitation is related to measurement. Cerebro perhaps can’t fully capture and record Omega powers. These are a list of mutants that are not in this creepy collection of mutants.

I mean clearly I am just being paranoid. Xavier is a good guy right?

[JKtheMac]

I keep seeing Gambit being referenced as being Omega. Honestly, what crazy story asserted this? Clearly this was from the period of comics I didn’t read, but I can’t take that assertion seriously.

[JKtheMac]

Please don't start a who is the most powerful telepath conversation...they never end well. Lol

Especially now we have a definitive answer

[JKtheMac]

Quentin Quire. The most misunderstood character ever written. I sometimes wonder if you need to be British to understand him and love him. The best thing about the hatred he seems to bring out in people is that it is literally baked into his character. He is the misunderstood edgy guy who really wants to be an outsider but is trapped inside his own privilege. Perhaps now that the Cuckoo’s are back some will be able to reevaluate him without the always unfair accusations of killing a fan favourite.

[fridric]

I figure that this would be one of the more discussed things from HoX. I am just putting a spoiler warning just a precaution this doesn't cover an actual plot HoX 1 but was part of the book so if you want experience HoX fresh like everyone else stop reading here. Also, people might discuss HoX 1 inside so again Spoilers


Omega Level
************************************************** ************************************************** ******
Omega Level Mutant: A mutant whose dominant power is deemed to register -- or reach -- an undefinable upper limit of that power's specific classification.

For Example: Both Magneto and Forge are the most powerful mutants of their power types on the planet Earth [Magnetism and Technopathy, respectively], but what makes Magneto, and not Forge, an Omega level mutant is that the upper limit of Forge's measurable powers could hypothetically be surpassed [and, in fact, has by multiple humans on the planet], while the upper limit of Magneto's power cannot be surpassed by any measurable fashion.

Note: Omega level is a classification of a single mutant power. While it is quite common that mutants manifest multiple powers, only one is normally of Omega level.

For Example: While Jean Grey is both a telepath and a telekinetic, she is only an Omega level telepath.


OMEGA LEVEL MUTANTS [Known] :

Jamie Braddock (Monarch) - Quantum Reality Manipulation

Robert Drake (Iceman) - Negative Temperature Manipulation

Joshua Foley (Elixir) - Biokinesis

Jean Grey (Marvel Girl) - Telepathy

David Haller (Legion) - Power Manifestation

Erik Lensherr (Magneto) - Magnetism

Kevin MacTaggert (Proteus) - Psionic Reality Manipulation

Absalon Mercator (Mister M) - Matter Manipulation

Ororo Munroe (Storm) - Weather Manipulation

Bennet du Paris (Exodus) - Telekinesis

Quentin Quire (Kid Omega) - Telepathy

Franklin Richards (Powerhouse) - Universal Reality Manipulation

Gabriel Summers (Vulcan) - Energy Manipulation

Hope Summers (Hope) - Power Manipulation


Omega Protocol

These are all of the "known" Omega level mutants. It also gives their affiliation: all are with Krakoa except for Monarch (None), Legion (Unknown), Mister M (Unknown), Exodus (None), and Franklin Richards (HUMAN).

The Omega Protocol is then defined: "While it is believed that a greater dynamo is possible through collective means, it is a current priority for the mutant nation of Krakoa to protect and nurture its greatest natural resource: Omega level mutants.

All efforts are to be expended in order to secure the future of the state.

'One people. One tribe. One family.'"

I gave my feelings about this explanation of the Omega level mutants here but I didn't properly explain all my thoughts about it and why it's not a good explanation.
The old Omega level classification is based on the term "Unlimited Potential" which can be unclear if not properly explained. That's why Hickman created one explanation. If it's true that it fills the job on some point, it still remains vague because it doesn't give any real measure/scale to know WHEN AND HOW A MUTANT IS OMEGA CLASS/LEVEL.
The example of Magneto is bad because we don't know what is THE CRITERIA(the limit) he brake to be classified as Omega. It's simple there's NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA! WE NEED VALID STATS LIKE THE MARVEL DATA ABOUT HEROES' STATS(powers & skills).
As we saw as reader of X-titles comics, many Omega are psionics, have Reality Warping, control matter & energy. So, it's a question of what power a mutant have in a 1st place!
For 2nd criteria, it's about the scale of this power and it's here where the term Unlimited Potential is required to determine who is an Omega and who is not! But for that, we must determine the MEASURE for that. And this is this particular point I'm mad at Hickman's definition! For a physical powerhouse, it's simple to determine his/her strenght: we look at the number of tons he/she can lift! Ton is the measurable criteria. So what should be the criteria for a mutant to be classified as Omega Class??? The powers of these Omega are varied and have a different measure for each of them. For example: you can measure TK with how many the user can lift(in tons) and his/her finest matter control(molecular or subatomic for example). For TP: I don't know what's the measure for this one because WE DON'T KNOW! So, it's stupid to give a common measure for each of these powers because THEY DON'T SHARE THE SAME MEASURE OF LEVELS!!!
It's not dramatic to not share a same measure because they are different powers BUT we can find a BETTER CRITERIA to classify a power as Omega Class and for me it could be this: when a mutant's power achieved
at least a Planetary scale he/she would be considered Omega Class.

An Omega Class should be A MUTANT WITH A POWER FROM A LIST OF RESTRICTED MUTATIONS WHICH HAVE UNLIMITED POTENTIAL AND HAVING AT LEAST A PLANETARY SCALE OF RANGE(so he/she's like like a weapon of mass destruction too)!

[JKtheMac]

I gave my feelings about this explanation of the Omega level mutants here but I didn't properly explain all my thoughts about it and why it's not a good explanation.

It is perhaps worth reflecting that this is not trying to be a complete explanation. Even the express purpose of the page is redacted in the script because this is an in-universe document but it is also part of Hickman’s crafted story and the way he wants to portion out reveals.

We know from a tweet he recently “wrote 5000 words on when someone can, and cannot utter the phrase”. This isn’t it.

NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA! WE NEED VALID STATS LIKE THE MARVEL DATA ABOUT HEROES' STATS(powers & skills).

Please Marvel. Never ever do this.

[Zelena]

I think it’s an interesting thing to think about. Whether this is about Xavier seeing potential.

It’s partly because I am so creeped out by ‘camp, cult-leader, messiah, gardener Xavier’ and don’t trust him at all. I mean, as a fan of early comics I have always thought of Xavier as a villain in hero’s clothing, and as I learnt more about narrative structure I realised he was often both an antagonist and also a perhaps overly tempting and convenient way to wrap up loose ends at the end of an issue.

So that being said, seeing Xavier apparently bring mutants from the past back, in Invasion of the Bodysnatchers style, I couldn’t help making the leap that he has been recording everything with Cerebro. That far from just using Cerebro as a way of locating mutants and the normal dodgy associations with Cerebro, a device that could only be created by a megalomaniacal control freak, but he has been recording, analysing, and effectively classifying everyone and worse laying a contingency for possibly turning Cerebro into a Dr Who Lungbarrow style Loom (that’s a deep cut, but think gene splicing from multiple parents).

Let’s face it, the whole classification system is based on Xavier’s meticulous calibrations of a piece of technology that invades privacy. From an era when we didn’t all carry GPS tracking devices with us. So does he understand the potential of mutant powers better than any of us? Has he run experiments on models of actual mutant’s powers and personalities? Has he tested their powers quietly in the Danger Room in the early hours? Is Krakoa not so much a brand new technology, but instead just him pulling the trigger on something he has been holding in reserve for years?

I wonder if Xavier’s limitation is related to measurement. Cerebro perhaps can’t fully capture and record Omega powers. These are a list of mutants that are not in this creepy collection of mutants.

I mean clearly I am just being paranoid. Xavier is a good guy right?

I haven't read HoX so I don't know if Xavier is or is not a "villain". But he has been created as a good person from the beginning.
And, despite all the writers, authors who have succeeded one another, I still see as one.

Now, his problem is: how far would you go to save the people you love and consider as your family? You have the power and these people look at you, hopefully, expecting you will protect them.

There is no control freak if there is no people willing to give control to a person. I see himself as person who has responabilities that extends to the whole "mutantkind" (and in the past at least, to the whole humanity).

I find the opposition villain/not-villain for many characters rather annoying even if what I hear from "Hickman Xavier" doesn't make him very sympathetic to me.

[JKtheMac]

I haven't read HoX so I don't know if Xavier is or is not a "villain". But he has been created as a good person from the beginning.

Intentionally or not, and I am sure you are correct in your assertions, he does not act honourably or morally in those early books. This gave later writers something to chew on. Morally flawed Xavier will always be a thing.

Now, his problem is: how far would you go to save the people you love and consider as your family? You have the power and these people look at you, hopefully, expecting you will protect them.

Absolutely. And he is prepared to go way over the line sometimes. At other times he doesn’t. This is why he is a fascinating character and at times is effectively an antagonist, in that he is the source of challenges for our protagonists.

There is no control freak if there is no people willing to give control to a person. I see himself as person who has responabilities that extends to the whole "mutantkind" (and in the past at least, to the whole humanity).

The very first day he introduced Cerebro he reveals himself to be driven by the need to control the situation. He has to know if there are any mutants around and not leave things to chance. Sure, you can spin that as positive and nurturing, alternatively you can see it as a little dysfunctional and overly paternal. As if having the power to take responsibility for mutants necessitates actually taking that responsibility. How many times have we seen him convincing parents to allow him to school their children. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? It’s ambiguous.

I find the opposition villain/not-villain for many characters rather annoying even if what I hear from "Hickman Xavier" doesn't make him very sympathetic to me.

I am not specifically calling him a villain as such, even if I used the word. I am calling him an antagonist. From a pure narratology perspective he is the person who often stirs things up and creates the situation that indirectly evolves into the challenging situation that mutants face.

By ‘villain in hero’s clothing’ I simply mean he is painted as a hero but some of his actions and even motivations are contrary to peace and happiness. He’s a driven and often extreme man with a quiet and reasonable voice. A truly great character.

[Killerbee911]

I gave my feelings about this explanation of the Omega level mutants here but I didn't properly explain all my thoughts about it and why it's not a good explanation.
The old Omega level classification is based on the term "Unlimited Potential" which can be unclear if not properly explained. That's why Hickman created one explanation. If it's true that it fills the job on some point, it still remains vague because it doesn't give any real measure/scale to know WHEN AND HOW A MUTANT IS OMEGA CLASS/LEVEL.
The example of Magneto is bad because we don't know what is THE CRITERIA(the limit) he brake to be classified as Omega. It's simple there's NO OBJECTIVE CRITERIA! WE NEED VALID STATS LIKE THE MARVEL DATA ABOUT HEROES' STATS(powers & skills).
As we saw as reader of X-titles comics, many Omega are psionics, have Reality Warping, control matter & energy. So, it's a question of what power a mutant have in a 1st place!
For 2nd criteria, it's about the scale of this power and it's here where the term Unlimited Potential is required to determine who is an Omega and who is not! But for that, we must determine the MEASURE for that. And this is this particular point I'm mad at Hickman's definition! For a physical powerhouse, it's simple to determine his/her strenght: we look at the number of tons he/she can lift! Ton is the measurable criteria. So what should be the criteria for a mutant to be classified as Omega Class??? The powers of these Omega are varied and have a different measure for each of them. For example: you can measure TK with how many the user can lift(in tons) and his/her finest matter control(molecular or subatomic for example). For TP: I don't know what's the measure for this one because WE DON'T KNOW! So, it's stupid to give a common measure for each of these powers because THEY DON'T SHARE THE SAME MEASURE OF LEVELS!!!
It's not dramatic to not share a same measure because they are different powers BUT we can find a BETTER CRITERIA to classify a power as Omega Class and for me it could be this: when a mutant's power achieved
at least a Planetary scale he/she would be considered Omega Class.

An Omega Class should be A MUTANT WITH A POWER FROM A LIST OF RESTRICTED MUTATIONS WHICH HAVE UNLIMITED POTENTIAL AND HAVING AT LEAST A PLANETARY SCALE OF RANGE(so he/she's like like a weapon of mass destruction too)!

I think some of us(myself included) take this part of too seriously from a storyteller perspective Hickman did a fine of setting up Omega leaving it vague enough that Exodus could lift 50 tons or destroy a planet if it was needed for a story. As a storyteller Hickman cares enough that things are clearly defined but will leave enough vagueness that he has flexibility.

Sorry bunch of planet killers running around is bad storytelling, Heck one of these guys with undefinable upper limits are going to their ass whoop at some point. Hickman shift definition from "mutant themselves being powerful" to the "ability range being powerful". While potentially Storm, Magneto and Iceman can do amazing things at "their peak", Those characters need to be able to have their ass kicked a fight by people who are not planetary scale. The X-men don't regularly fight Cell,Buu and Freiza. The X-men fight the church of humanity, Reavers, Purifiers and wide variety henchman, soldiers, shield agents and mutants who are human in range.

Unless you change who the X-men regular fight, defining Omega how you guys want is bad idea. Apocalypse shows up and they are Storm, Jean Grey, Iceman, Quire, Hope, Maybe Magneto and according to us Polaris, Rachel, and others. How in the F*** are the X-men going to lose? With that line up other than Celestials and cosmic beings, how are the X-men going lose ever again? Let us calm down on power stuff it doesn't make for a good book

[JKtheMac]

Let us calm down on power stuff it doesn't make for a good book

Exactly. You almost don’t need to say anything else. This is not a list of people who can beat everyone below them in a fight. This is not even a list of most powerful characters IMO. It’s a list of characters that can transcend normal limits. From a storytelling perspective they can do lots of surprising things that defy simple power sets.

Storm is not just a very powerful weather manipulator, Magneto is not just a very powerful manipulator of magnetic fields, Hope is not just a power manipulator, etc.

I mean Gambit apparently has atomic potential, but has he ever transcended that power set? Has he done crazy mind bending things that seem to defy his ability to manipulate Kinetic Energy? It’s the same with Jubilee. These are not the guys that seem to break the rules, even if they can take their powers to extremes.

Let’s imagine an Omega version of Gambit. OGambit might be able to literally bring the planet to a standstill. Stop everything and everyone from moving. He could perhaps channel a blast of energy powered by plate tectonics to destroy an alien fleet. He could use the sea for unlimited power. None of these are the Gambit we know.

[Anchorsify]

Exactly. You almost don’t need to say anything else. This is not a list of people who can beat everyone below them in a fight. This is not even a list of most powerful characters IMO. It’s a list of characters that can transcend normal limits. From a storytelling perspective they can do lots of surprising things that defy simple power sets.

Storm is not just a very powerful weather manipulator, Magneto is not just a very powerful manipulator of magnetic fields, Hope is not just a power manipulator, etc.

I mean Gambit apparently has atomic potential, but has he ever transcended that power set? Has he done crazy mind bending things that seem to defy his ability to manipulate Kinetic Energy? It’s the same with Jubilee. These are not the guys that seem to break the rules, even if they can take their powers to extremes.

Let’s imagine an Omega version of Gambit. OGambit might be able to literally bring the planet to a standstill. Stop everything and everyone from moving. He could perhaps channel a blast of energy powered by plate tectonics to destroy an alien fleet. He could use the sea for unlimited power. None of these are the Gambit we know.

All of this is basically invalidated by Bobby. He is the definition of “unlimited power that he never uses.” But he is consistently listed as omega for his potential even if he never uses it. The Bobby we know isn’t omega.. but he still is.

Which is why these listings don’t make much sense. It’s meant to be “potential” but then the potential of many people should get them put up and aren’t. It just makes it look like they are ignorant to their own characters.