Grail

[Agent Z]

Grail's problem is that she's fat too bound up in another franchise.

[Korath]

Grail's problem is that she's fat too bound up in another franchise.

Only if writers want it to.

Myrina rope her really close to the Wonder Woman mythos, and so does her nature as a demi-goddess. And if Darkseid can be seen as a Superman villain, surely his daughter can be a Wonder foes.

[Agent Z]

Only if writers want it to.

Myrina rope her really close to the Wonder Woman mythos, and so does her nature as a demi-goddess. And if Darkseid can be seen as a Superman villain, surely his daughter can be a Wonder foes.

Quite a number of people have questioned if Darkseif being reduced to a Superman foe has helped the character given it often involves lowering a great deal of the Fourth World's complexity.

Remove Grail's connection to the New Gods, and she doesn't bring anything to the table that previous WW villains don't already have. We've had evil Amazons before. We've had female characters powerful enough to take on Diana such as Devastation and Valkyrie. Hell, Myrina on her own could have been an interesting antagonist but they just had to throw in a stupid plan about her getting knocked up by Darkseid. Everything about Grail and her connection to the New Gods reeks of DC not having much faith in her as a villain so they tied her in with another franchise.

[king81992]

Grail's problem is that she's fat too bound up in another franchise.

Is she really though? Outside of King's bizarre Mr. Miracle and Darkseid in JLO, DC hasn't really done much with 4th World recently. Grail's connection to the New Gods isn't really explored outside of her being Darkseid's daughter. She's his daughter, but her role among the other New Gods isn't really explored.

Granny Goodness trains the Female Furies, Orion is Darkseid's son and fated to kill him, Kalibak is Darkseid's least favorite child(not that Darkseid cares about anyone)and wants to prove his worth to Darkseid, Desead is Darkseid's advisor, Glorious Godfrey comes up with propaganda and Kanto is Darkseid's top assassin. Grail is Drakseid's daughter and ?

[Ascended]

Grail's problem is that she's fat too bound up in another franchise.

I feel like that's not really a hurdle. We've had characters from other godly pantheons show up in Diana's books before, the only difference here is that the New Gods get a *little* more attention. But Grail, despite her parentage, is pretty far removed from the New Gods' narrative. She has no great destiny like Orion, no interactions or dynamics that *must* be used to properly harness the character like Dessad (who must fawn over Darkseid or not really feel like Dessad). She's half Amazon, trained in Amazon ways......she's 100% in Diana's mythos, she just happens to have Darkseid as a daddy. And all that does is allow for more interaction between Diana and the Fourth World, which is not a bad thing. And Grail's autonomous enough she can do her own thing without having to bring all of Apokolypse with her.

Darkseid fights Superman a lot, and appears in Super-related books and stories. But the Fourth World is still far from being a Superman only concept. Grayven is a GL villain and in the exact same position as Grail; half New God. Cyborg has a Mother Box for a heart and hasnt had to be completely swallowed up by the Fourth World. Diana can have a villain who is Darkseid's daughter without it derailing the entire Wonder mythology.