Anyone else here who doesn't like The Judas Contract (comic storyline)?

[kcekada]

Knowing the ending is bound to make a story less interesting. But yeah, when it came out -- it was close to Dark Phoenix in storytelling.

I do think that bringing in Jericho and losing Terra wasn't good for the book. Jericho had a boring power set and a crappy look. Really didn't work good for a superhero comic book -- whereas Terra's scenes leaped off the page. Of course, no one could draw Terra like Perez did -- so once he left the series -- it probably didn't matter much.

[titanfan]

I do think that bringing in Jericho and losing Terra wasn't good for the book. Jericho had a boring power set and a crappy look. Really didn't work good for a superhero comic book -- whereas Terra's scenes leaped off the page. Of course, no one could draw Terra like Perez did -- so once he left the series -- it probably didn't matter much.

Yes, many artists (still to this day) don't enjoy drawing the Terra character because of all of the rocks in her action scenes.

[Jim Kelly]

You just have to put your memory of what happened on hold and read the story as you would if you knew nothing of that and what would happen. Then everything happens fresh as you experience how it should unfold.

Doesn't anyone else have that ability?

It's not that I liked the story when I read it the first time. It's not a story you're supposed to like. Rightly, if you're getting the proper effect, you should be deeply upset. Certain characters let you down and leave you feeling terribly depressed. That's what you're supposed to feel by the end.

It's too bad that Wolfman tried to reverse that effect with his later stories, but just put all of that out of your mind. None of that has happened yet, when you are reading the story.

[Chubistian]

I don't think knowing what is going to happen affects in the long run. Of course it depends on the person, but The Death of Gwen Stacy, to put an example, holds the same quality it did many years before. I think this is true in any form of media. I have enjoyed the originals Star Wars, Psycho (which relies a lot on its twist), among many other movies, comics and books, despite knowing what is going to happen. Even if the spoiler ruins one story, it's only valid for the first watch/read, and subsequent readings/watchs won't be affected by it. If a story only has its twist as a defense, its not a great story. In an ideal case, a product should be experienced at least twice, but of course we only tend to revisit the products we have enjoyed. It took me three readings to actually appreciate God Loves Man Kills, and there're other works that are liked by most and I don't share the popular opinion about them.

I think Judas Contract has a lot more going on which makes it a great story that just the twist, but as with any story, it won't be liked by everyone. But saying that its faculties are just related to its context is simplifying its hits

[Jim Kelly]

I really meant more about the characters rather than the plot. By the end of this story (if not before), I was firmly convinced that Deathstroke was a horrible, evil, disgusting human being. And that's where you should end up feeling--whatever they did with him after doesn't pertain to this story. Likewise where Tara ends up is definitely where she ends up--no retcons should colour your perception of her character in this story.

I mean maybe it's better to read it like you would an Elseworlds. You know going into those that you have to totally suspend your preconceived notions of the characters and go with the version that the writer is presenting in that reality.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think it's one of the high marks of the NTT run, and it mostly holds up very well. I think some of its power is lost when a of its revelations and status quo changes (Terra's betrayal, Dick becoming Nightwing, introducing Jericho and Adeline) are old hat by now, but it must have been huge at the time.

As someone who was introduced to the Titans and Terra through the cartoon, I can't get to like Terra as much as her animated counterpart. That's kind of the point I guess since Terra was never intended to be likeable when her true colors were revealed. But I connected to the animated Terra more, in large part because the story is told from her perspective and the addition of a great vocal performance helps create a lot of sympathy for her. An unbalance teenage trauma/abuse victim who was easily groomed by Slade into becoming a villain (and who later beats her) is some heavy **** for a kids cartoon, and her appearance in the finale 1000% more interesting and mature than the Terra 2 nonsense we got in the comics. So in the end, my issue with the TJC of the comic is I just don't care that much about Terra even though the stuff revolving around the Titans (especially Dick) is very interesting. Slade's backstory is very interesting too, but I have to mentally separate Slade in this story from what he becomes almost immediately afterward. He's a creep and a monster who gloats about trapping the Titans to their faces and laments that he never got the chance to bang Kory before she dies. The pod person that Wolfman wrote afterward that got absolved ruins this story in hindsight, and is why I have no use for Slade between Perez's departure and Priest's run.

So I can enjoy the Judas Contract in isolation, but subsequent stories can ruin it if I think about them too much and there are other takes on the story that I think made improvements.

[Falcon16]

I like Terra better as a hero so I skip the arc. Terra 2 represent

[king81992]

I like Terra better as a hero so I skip the arc. Terra 2 represent

Terra 2 should have been a reformed amnesiac Terra instead of the clone cop out.

New 52 also had the right idea when it came to Terra, but the book was awful(except her and Beast Boy who was red for some reason)and those changes didn't stick.

[Jim Kelly]

I guess it doesn't matter anymore because DC has pretty much junked all of the New Teen Titans continuity, but I think Tara Markov should be dead. Any other Terra should just be a different iteration and not the actual Tara Markov. Her death meant so much to the Titans--chiefly Gar, but the rest of them as well, as that represented one of their greatest failures. Her betrayal and her death should be something that haunts them.

[Holt]

It's a great story with aspects that have aged poorly. The epilogue from later in the same run where Slade makes peace with Beast Boy while talking about how Terra was always the real monster and so evil that she scared even him (which curiously, didn't stop him from sleeping with her despite her being a teen) really comes off bad nowadays.

[Chubistian]

I agree that what came next didn't work with what was built in Judas Contract when it comes to Slade and Tara. I also was first familiar with Terra in the cartoons and later with her counterpart in NTT. I think both versions work in their particular stories. I do understand the need to wash up Deathstroke in order to make him a more sympathetic villain, closer to an antihero and who can carry a title by himself, but it definitely doesn't look good because it gets in sensitive territory where it looks as an story justifying what Slade did with Tara. I think as an story, it was interesting for the whole Gar/Deathstroke stuff, but I could live without the whole part that tried to reduce Slade's crimes.

[DrNewGod]

I agree with others here who point out that knowing the end siphons off the story's power.

That said, there were a lot of interesting contrasts in play in Terra's arc. We were conditioned to think in terms of The Right Will Out back in those days, and this was Geo-Force's sister to boot. W&P did a nice job of feeding us suspicions that she might be turning, without ever backing off showing what a nasty piece of work she really was. The shock wasn't that she proved evil in the end, it was that W&P actually took the way such a character should have behaved all the way to its logical conclusion.

As an aside, anyone know if Terra was created as a Markov, or did somebody notice the similarity between her look/powers and Geo-Force and shoehorn the connection in? I ask because nothing about her initial appearances said "foreigner" the way GF did.

[Wakeneuron]

I agree with others here who point out that knowing the end siphons off the story's power.

That said, there were a lot of interesting contrasts in play in Terra's arc. We were conditioned to think in terms of The Right Will Out back in those days, and this was Geo-Force's sister to boot. W&P did a nice job of feeding us suspicions that she might be turning, without ever backing off showing what a nasty piece of work she really was. The shock wasn't that she proved evil in the end, it was that W&P actually took the way such a character should have behaved all the way to its logical conclusion.

As an aside, anyone know if Terra was created as a Markov, or did somebody notice the similarity between her look/powers and Geo-Force and shoehorn the connection in? I ask because nothing about her initial appearances said "foreigner" the way GF did.

I remember reading a Marv Wolfman interview where he says that he changed Terra's background to fit with Geo Force, created by Mike Baron, because they had similar powers.

[kcekada]

Terra 2 should have been a reformed amnesiac Terra instead of the clone cop out.

This is water under the bridge now that we have yet another DC continuity, but there was a revelation that Terra was actually the original Terra. She was a exact genetic match -- but only Geo-Force knew this -- and didn't reveal it to Terra II -- because she had no memory of being Terra I. I don't think she was a clone in the end. She finally died again at the hands of Black Adam in another one of the Didio bloodfests.

[mikelmcknight72]

I may be biased considering I read it when it was published, but I still view it as one of the best Titans stories of all time. It was sad without being cynical, and your heart broke for Gar. Plus, it is the story that gave us Nightwing, Jericho, and origin of Deathstroke.

I actually wish they would have stuck with the less-than-moral mercenary Deathstroke instead of the villainous, overpowered Deathstroke. He started out as the former, and I always inferred from his origin that the government experiment that gave him his powers may have affected his mind somewhat.

The apparent sexual relationship between Slade & Tara was more surprising than shocking. Amoral people do amoral things. Tara's personality and powers leave little doubt that she was a willing partner, even given her age. There was no intimation at the time that she was being controlled or manipulated by Slade. Used, yes, but she was using him too.