When did Barry Allen become Wally West?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The overlap between Barry & Wally has been going on for decades now. When Wally first took over as The Flash, he was a much different, and much less sympathetic character. It wasn't until Baron left that Wally became more of what readers love about the character, particularly once Waid took over. However, even then, Wally had begun to assume more of Barry's traits by marrying his reporter girlfriend, facing off against Barry's old Rogues, and getting a job within the Police Department. Once Barry returned, many of Wally's traits started getting absorbed by Barry.

The two characters still have some differences, but their similarities are so pronounced I'm not sure how they'll end up distinguishing the two from each other in their respective roles within the DCU. My preference would be for Wally to become more Multiverse focused, which appears to be where Flash Forward is going.

[BohemiaDrinker]

The two characters still have some differences, but their similarities are so pronounced I'm not sure how they'll end up distinguishing the two from each other in their respective roles within the DCU.

C'mon now Bored; any Flash fan worth half their weight can tell the two apart by just a line of dialogue and/or any section of their costumes. it's only DC that feels that "they're same". (And I have my doubts if they actually do)

Also, if one of them is to become more multiverse/time-traveling focused, it should be Barry. Those were always more of his domains (powerset proficiency aside).

[married guy]

Short answer is: Barry became Wally with the relaunch of New 52.

It's not quite that black and white obviously, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that Barry wasn't given a complete personality transplant with the relaunch.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

C'mon now Bored; any Flash fan worth half their weight can tell the two apart by just a line of dialogue and/or any section of their costumes. it's only DC that feels that "they're same". (And I have my doubts if they actually do).

That used to be true, but since the most recent Flash Year One has inexplicably given Barry the same V-shaped lightning belt that Wally had, and Barry has become more likely to quip, the differences between the two are far less distinct.

Now, if we're talking about Wally's nifty Rebirth suit, yes, they are very visually distinct, but their personas have begun to blend together far too much. The same has often happened with the various Earth GLs, with Hal often becoming more like Guy in the New 52 Justice League while Kyle became Hal-lite during point of his run. There are differences between Barry and Wally, one is much more of a nerd while the other is more of an everyman, but they could easily be confused for each other in a Justice League story. My students, for instance, had no idea that The Flash in Morrison's JLA or the Justice League cartoon wasn't Barry.

Also, if one of them is to become more multiverse/time-traveling focused, it should be Barry. Those were always more of his domains (powerset proficiency aside).

I would agree, but Barry's CSI job makes for a more interesting civilian status quo than Wally ever had (the mechanic thing didn't really do much for me), so making Wally the Multiverse hoppin' explorer Flash seems like a better bet, particularly once you add in the great hook that Wally is searching for his lost wife and children.

[Rend20]

My students, for instance, had no idea that The Flash in Morrison's JLA or the Justice League cartoon wasn't Barry.

But isn't that just the case of people automatically assuming The Flash is Barry these days?

I really don't see how anyone who is familiar with the characters and read or watch those things could confuse the two in terms of characterization/personality.

particularly once you add in the great hook that Wally is searching for his lost wife and children.

But Wally isn't searching for Linda. He already knows she's in Keystone and wants little to do with him. And what are the kids worth without Linda?

[Modamy]

That used to be true, but since the most recent Flash Year One has inexplicably given Barry the same V-shaped lightning belt that Wally had, and Barry has become more likely to quip, the differences between the two are far less distinct.

I think that was more Howard Porter's preference in how the suit is drawn. Scott Kolins draws modern Barry's suit with the classic belt in the most recent issue.

[Sam]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Barry quipping. I just imagine his quips are dorkier than Wally's (and I mean that in a good way).

[Bored at 3:00AM]

But isn't that just the case of people automatically assuming The Flash is Barry these days?

I really don't see how anyone who is familiar with the characters and read or watch those things could confuse the two in terms of characterization/personality.

You may not be able to see it, but since people do confuse the two, it remains a problem moving forward. The new Rebirth costume is a great first step, but carving out two distinct characterizations for Barry & Wally is a little tricker because readers enjoy a Barry who is more like Wally, just like readers enjoyed Wally when he became more like Barry. For both characters to co-exist, the differences between them need to be very clear to readers beyond the hardcore audience well-versed in the nuances of their decades-long history.

This isn't a task that will be easy, either. If you remove something from either character or push them too much in one direction, you might end up making them something else entirely that readers don't want, which was the case with Wally since his return following Rebirth. By making Wally such a sad sack, they've lost a lot of what made the character appealing to begin with.

But Wally isn't searching for Linda. He already knows she's in Keystone and wants little to do with him. And what are the kids worth without Linda?

I know, but since they've established that this Linda doesn't have any connection with Wally and he can't reawaken her memories of him like he's been able to with the rest of his old friends and allies, you could make a pretty good argument that this isn't even Wally's Linda to begin with.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Barry quipping. I just imagine his quips are dorkier than Wally's (and I mean that in a good way).

Yeah, I think they should lean into the nerdier aspects of Barry's persona more. The problem is that fans of the Justice League cartoon adore Rosenbaum's Dudebro Flash, which doesn't really work for Barry at all, nor is it appropriate for Wally these days either, because he'd grown past that long ago.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think that was more Howard Porter's preference in how the suit is drawn. Scott Kolins draws modern Barry's suit with the classic belt in the most recent issue.

I hope it's just a mistake on Porter's part. I like when the evolution of costumes are retained. It rubs me the wrong way when I see Hal Jordan with green shoulders in his earliest adventures when he should have his original outfit. Same goes for Flash's belt and Batman's symbol.

[Sam]

Yeah, I think they should lean into the nerdier aspects of Barry's persona more. The problem is that fans of the Justice League cartoon adore Rosenbaum's Dudebro Flash, which doesn't really work for Barry at all, nor is it appropriate for Wally these days either, because he'd grown past that long ago.

I'm not sure Dudebro is the right word, but I know what you mean. However, I do think Snyder does a good job at portraying the JLU Wally in a way that's recognizable and doesn't undercut the character. The only problem is it's Barry he's writing for.

[deadman322]

doesn't really matter anyway cause now wally's just something dc uses to get a cheap reaction out of fans, flashforward will be no different.

[Rend20]

You may not be able to see it, but since people do confuse the two, it remains a problem moving forward.

But isn't it only confusing because people are unfamiliar with the characters?

One of the Flash's first scenes in Justice League was calling dibs on working with Diana and throwing snark at Batman about the aliens being nocturnal. Add in him constantly putting his foot in his mouth and using his image to appear in cheesy commercials, there was very little Barry there in terms of personality. And Wally's entire dynamic with Kyle in JLA doesn't work with Barry.

The confusion is the result of the different Flashes concept rather than individual personalities and characterizations. Most people simply assume Barry is The Flash these days thanks to the show and movies.

I know, but since they've established that this Linda doesn't have any connection with Wally and he can't reawaken her memories of him like he's been able to with the rest of his old friends and allies, you could make a pretty good argument that this isn't even Wally's Linda to begin with.

But they have also established current Linda is Pre-Flashpoint Linda with her memories altered. There is no "other Linda" for Wally to search for.

[justinslot]

doesn't really matter anyway cause now wally's just something dc uses to get a cheap reaction out of fans, flashforward will be no different.

(sees Wally on cover of Previews) Oh heck yes, a Wally book! Wonder who--

(sees Scott Lobdell's name, who hasn't had a good comic book since Generation X) Ah jeez...I mean was Tom Defalco unavailable? DC's definitely signalling how much they value Wally here...

[Lee]

You may not be able to see it, but since people do confuse the two, it remains a problem moving forward. The new Rebirth costume is a great first step, but carving out two distinct characterizations for Barry & Wally is a little tricker because readers enjoy a Barry who is more like Wally, just like readers enjoyed Wally when he became more like Barry. For both characters to co-exist, the differences between them need to be very clear to readers beyond the hardcore audience well-versed in the nuances of their decades-long history.

That's the problem in a nutshell.

When Wally first became The Flash, he was more of a Johnny Storm kind of character - a lot of this was carried over into the Justice League and Young Justice cartoons.

In the comics, Wally became more Barry Allen-ish each year. This was fine at the time, but now that Barry Allen and an adult Wally West co-exist, something needs to be done to distinguish the two. Would it be so bad to bring back some of that Johnny Storm swagger, or have him in a college setting? Having his own name would help too, but I know the idea of different characters having different names would make some people furious.