When did Barry Allen become Wally West?

[The Darknight Detective]

Barry was bowtie and crew cut all the way in LIFE STORY OF THE FLASH.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Which was ridiculous, despite the story's greatness. I mean, Barry had the Day of the Condor look longer than the Mercury 7 astronauts attire and hairstyle, yet...

[Buried Alien]

Which was ridiculous, despite the story's greatness. I mean, Barry had the Day of the Condor look...

Minus the glasses, of course.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[The Darknight Detective]

Minus the glasses, of course.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Right. I forgot he wore glasses for a time in the film.

[Frontier]

Waid's Barry was jarringly old-fashioned to me. And so was Johns' Barry for the most part. The writers in question being big names does not really factor into this, only if they wrote Bary in a modern way, And I would still argue that a lot didn't.

Johns' post-resurrection, pre-Flashpoint Barry was still a bit old fashioned. Flashpoint is where they did start to modernize him more with Manapul's Flash and Johns' Justice League. And I would say that has continued for the most part.

I am not reading Snyder's Justice Leauge, but from the Superheroes he chose to be on the Justice League team, it does not surprise me that his Barry is written like Wally from the JL cartoon.

Barry's kind of an old-fashioned guy, though.

And that's not a negative in my opinion.

While I certainly wouldn't say it was an inaccurate take, Young Justice's version is easily my least favorite outside adaptation of Wally.

I thought they took the worst elements of the character, tossed out the reasons for why those things existed, and basically failed to show most of the good qualities that make the character special. He was basically the selfish jerk from NTT/Baron's run who doubled as the incompetent comic relief (like JLU but worse) that all the other characters laugh at.

I also don't associate being a full-fledged science geek with Wally, which was a pretty crucial part of his character, like I do with Barry. Though YJ did do an excellent job of making their speedsters distinct from one another.

I think the issue with YJ!Wally is he never got to develop into an adult hero, and as The Flash, like comic Wally did where he got to really become the Wally people loved. But the potential was there.

I also really liked him being a science geek. I think it complimented him well on the show.

[phantom1592]

Which was ridiculous, despite the story's greatness. I mean, Barry had the Day of the Condor look longer than the Mercury 7 astronauts attire and hairstyle, yet...

I'm actually a fan of the crew cut. Even if he did outgrow it, it's a popular hairstyle among the police. It's short and orderly... all things I think of when I think of Barry. I can easily see him growing it out for a while especially when Iris was dead... and then deciding that he was going back to basics a few years later. Especially when Iris comes back. Maybe she preferred it the way she first met him? It's also a bit different in comics so I love when a character can stand out without their mask.

Honestly a haircut that still exists in the world today doesn't need THAT much explaination. Bowties have made a resurgence too. Seems every time I go to anything where people are dressing up there's someone... sometimes 2 or 3 in a group where a bowtie. Sometimes ironically, sometimes because they're fans of Doctor Who, sometimes because it seems fancy and makes them look smart... but they're out there. I actually own 3 myself that I don't wear too often... but I do wear them.

There are a lot wild and crazy fashion styles that have thankfully died and been buried... but Barry's fashion isn't that weird.

[phantom1592]

I also really liked him being a science geek. I think it complimented him well on the show.

Agreed. Wally SHOULD be a science geek. He idolized Barry as a kid and Barry was constantly drumming him with the 'Flash Facts' and teaching him science-type solutions to all their problems. Having him NOT grow up a bit and be at least SOMEWHAT scientifically minded felt like an abandonment of his character...

[Rend20]

I think the issue with YJ!Wally is he never got to develop into an adult hero, and as The Flash, like comic Wally did where he got to really become the Wally people loved.

The issue is I felt "Coldhearted" set him up for exactly that. Maybe not so much him being the Flash, but having him mature and be a better hero going forward.

But all we got was him retiring and being shown to do nothing for those he didn't know during the invasion. It was like they doubled down on his heroic outlook being a weakness instead of allowing his character to evolve past the one who did things like view delivering a heart as not being a real mission.

Agreed. Wally SHOULD be a science geek. He idolized Barry as a kid and Barry was constantly drumming him with the 'Flash Facts' and teaching him science-type solutions to all their problems. Having him NOT grow up a bit and be at least SOMEWHAT scientifically minded felt like an abandonment of his character...

I think there's a difference between being a full-fledged science geek and being scientifically inclined.

I agree Wally should know his science to an extent, but I don't think he should be some sort of genius or prodigy. I believe Wally's portrayal during most of his Flash run struck the right balance for me. Barry is the one who should passionate about it in my opinion.

[phantom1592]

I think there's a difference between being a full-fledged science geek and being scientifically inclined.

I agree Wally should know his science to an extent, but I don't think he should be some sort of genius or prodigy. I believe Wally's portrayal during most of his Flash run struck the right balance for me. Barry is the one who should passionate about it in my opinion.

yeah, there should be a balance there. I really HATE it when I see Batman rebuilding teleporters and Red tornado... Knowing Science should never mean knowing ALLLLL of science. But just like I consider Nightwing to be a fantastic detective because he was trained at the feet of the worlds greatest detective... Wally was raised and trained at the feet of one of the world's experts on speed and physics. He's had the training and the apprenticeship. When the subject comes up he should know it all second hand. Biology or robotics or a thousand other kinds of comic sci-fi stuff... he wouldn't know.

[KC]

Barry's kind of an old-fashioned guy, though.

He might have been back then. But the type of old-fashioned he was does not gel with modern characters.

[Frontier]

The issue is I felt "Coldhearted" set him up for exactly that. Maybe not so much him being the Flash, but having him mature and be a better hero going forward.

But all we got was him retiring and being shown to do nothing for those he didn't know during the invasion. It was like they doubled down on his heroic outlook being a weakness instead of allowing his character to evolve past the one who did things like view delivering a heart as not being a real mission.

I don't think that aspect of him was meant to be seen as a negative but the way his character was underutilized and then ultimately taken out definitely did not serve him as well.

I think there's a difference between being a full-fledged science geek and being scientifically inclined.

I agree Wally should know his science to an extent, but I don't think he should be some sort of genius or prodigy. I believe Wally's portrayal during most of his Flash run struck the right balance for me. Barry is the one who should passionate about it in my opinion.

Any Flash should have a decent knowledge of science. I think it worked well for Wally in YJ. I don't think they were going for him as a prodigy on the show.

He might have been back then. But the type of old-fashioned he was does not gel with modern characters.

I have yet to see that be the case, if only because, when written correctly, he's not that much different now.

[KC]

I don't think that aspect of him was meant to be seen as a negative but the way his character was underutilized and then ultimately taken out definitely did not serve him as well.

Any Flash should have a decent knowledge of science. I think it worked well for Wally in YJ. I don't think they were going for him as a prodigy on the show.

I have yet to see that be the case, if only because, when written correctly, he's not that much different now.

The type of old-fashioned Barry was does not blend with modern characters at all. When he is written correctly, he can be shown to be modern whilst still being Barry.

[manwhohaseverything]

The type of old-fashioned Barry was does not blend with modern characters at all. When he is written correctly, he can be shown to be modern whilst still being Barry.

Clark is pretty old fashioned. He does pretty well. Sometimes even says "great scott" in many interpretations.

[Rend20]

I don't think that aspect of him was meant to be seen as a negative but the way his character was underutilized and then ultimately taken out definitely did not serve him as well.

I don't think it was meant to be a negative, either.

I just think they believed simply presenting the idea he would become a better hero at the end of "Coldhearted" and his final act was enough. Just like how we were seemingly expected to interpret him being shown to ultimately succumb to his inferiority as a victory because the word sacrifice was arbitrarily attached.

Any Flash should have a decent knowledge of science. I think it worked well for Wally in YJ. I don't think they were going for him as a prodigy on the show.

Maybe not. But his knowledge seemed pretty vast and varied especially for a fifteen year-old from what I remember.

[Vic Vega]

TV Barry has a lot of Barry in him, specially in the more serious scenes. However, he also:

• Obsesses with being faster
• Has troubles communicating his emotions
• Has green eyes
• Dresses like Wally West (like, seriously, Gustin's wardrobe comes directly from late 2000's Wally-Flash comics)
• Grew up in the West household
• Starts every episode with "My name is X, and I'm the fastest man alive"
• Dated Linda Park
• Fought both Zoom and Savitar (granted, very different versions of both)
• Is pretty impulsive
• Barely fundaments the use his powers on science, yet can do a lot of with them instinctively.

You may not to want to see Wally, but there is a lot of Wally in there. Even if I don't think that the character is "Barry in name only", as many say.

TV Barry also got Wally's Mentor/Daddy issues. And that was after they brought in the Flashpoint "murdered mom" angle.

For those who don't remember Wally's dad was a Manhunter sleeper agent and semi-heel for nearly all of Messner Loebs Flash run.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Barry's kind of an old-fashioned guy, though.

That's the core of this debate - a lot of later fans want to lock Barry into the stuffy and retro portrayal we've seen ever since Crisis.

But all of the core JLA characters have been revamped to be more modern. Some several times.

Barry's just not the lone exception anymore.

Put as a question: Current Barry is not much older than TV Barry. TV Barry grew up in the 1990s. Why would he be an "old fashioned" guy?