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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    *Off to add Quicksilver to my list of characters who should’ve always been gay.*

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    *Off to add Quicksilver to my list of characters who should’ve always been gay.*
    What about Wanda?

  3. #18

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    Like people have said, Alpha Flight is very much a "niche" team these days and when he was part of an X-Men team (Austen, Fraction etc.) he wasn't really an standout, mostly an recurring/supporting character, except in Liu's Astonishing - not a flagship title. So I think JP hasn't really got the opportunity to shine in the big stage like other characters have. And even then, that doesn't guarantee longevity either if editorial/writers simply forget your character exists (look at Marrow, Maggott, Pixie etc.)

  4. #19
    Mighty Member nnelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    That hasn't stopped DC from constantly publishing Cyborg comics.



    Does Black Panther's blackness matter? Does Captain Marvel's womanhood matter?

    Northstar's sexuality does matter to many fans, and the character has been the pioneer for gay representation in mainstream comics. He deserves better than what he normally gets.
    No Black Panther's blackness doesn't matter. He has a cool Batmanish costume. He has cool powers. The cool costume sells the book not the skin colour. If it wasn't the costume that help sell a book then why does almost every issue show the hero wearing the costume.


    I never once cared about the sexuality of a fictional character before. I don't really understand why anyone does.

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    What about Wanda?
    Oh don't get me started.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    This question has been on my mind a lot lately.

    Representation is vital in today's climate. People want to see themselves in all forms of media
    There's something about this mindset with the way people express it to me that just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Like, last I checked, the many consumers of entertainment I've seen want to be entertained by media, not treat media like it's a mirror. If it involves an issue that extends beyond the media itself, then perhaps more can be done to help find a solution to that issue to the best of one's ability?

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    There is only ONE reason why Northstar isn't pushed and it's more simple than anyone is willing to make it.

    That reason is:

    Northstar does not fit the current agenda and does not have enough notoriety for the current creative and management teams at Marvel.

    Ergo: "Why put in the work and creative input to build up a character, when there is a perfectly beloved character over here with a built in fanbase that we can just make LGBT+."

    As we learn like results ...sales may vary.
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  8. #23
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    Where is the Rogues' Gallery for NorthStar?

    How can any hero become popular without a Rogue's Gallery?

    The lack of brand new villains makes it hard for any hero to get a successful push. NorthStar is just another faceless hero in the vast hordes of Marvel fandom where it's hard to breakout and stay popular.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    That hasn't stopped DC from constantly publishing Cyborg comics.

    Does Black Panther's blackness matter? Does Captain Marvel's womanhood matter?

    Northstar's sexuality does matter to many fans, and the character has been the pioneer for gay representation in mainstream comics. He deserves better than what he normally gets.
    Cyborg has had 2 series. The first sold badly and had editorial issues.

    The second one was selling under 20K at issue 6 and got axed in the middle of a story.

    In both cases sales for the book were WORST than Moon Girl.

    Trades sales had Cyborg beaten by Prowler and even black lead books from the indys.


    If representation didn't matter why are there novels HIDING the race of the lead? Rivers of London is about a black male yet his novels HID his race.
    Why are the main books attacked at Marvel POC & LGBTQ lead books?
    Review bombing Black Panther & Cap Marvel?
    Cries of Marvel Phase 4 is an attack on a certain gender and demo?

    If it didn't matter-we wouldn't see this nonsense.
    the push back makes it an issue way more than the asking for it.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Force de Phenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    There is only ONE reason why Northstar isn't pushed and it's more simple than anyone is willing to make it.

    That reason is:

    Northstar does not fit the current agenda and does not have enough notoriety for the current creative and management teams at Marvel.

    Ergo: "Why put in the work and creative input to build up a character, when there is a perfectly beloved character over here with a built in fanbase that we can just make LGBT+."

    As we learn like results ...sales may vary.
    What agenda is that? They put work and creative input to build up Captain Marvel.

    I think Northstar is a consequence of there being more loved, nostalgic, popular, fleshed out X-Men characters like Storm and Wolverine. Any new or existing mutant would have to get passed the long list of other popular mutants that writers are more invested in before they'll go out of their way to chose the one almost no one is really demanding.
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  11. #26
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    I would say that his best opportunity to really grab it was probably lost. Alpha Flight's original run wasn't the most unpopular comic out there, at certain points it may have had the momentum to create a successful spin-off. It just never happened. Outside of a story or Two in Marvel Present JP didn't really have any solo ventures during the team's most successful period. Maybe with a few more of those he could have made it big, but it could have still gone down the same route. Him being an infrequently appearing X-Man.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    There's something about this mindset with the way people express it to me that just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Like, last I checked, the many consumers of entertainment I've seen want to be entertained by media, not treat media like it's a mirror.
    It's easy to say you don't want the media to be a mirror-if you are seeing a variety of representation of you.

    I think the point is too many folks use the media as a barometer to judge segments of folks. So the cries of better representation comes out.

    As does the push back.

    If it involves an issue that extends beyond the media itself, then perhaps more can be done to help find a solution to that issue to the best of one's ability?
    Well the issue is any attempt to showcase certain demos beyond stereotypes is met with pushback. And some of that push back can come from the very demo themselves.

    Take Black Panther movie-there were folks who took issue with the WOMEN having meaty roles in the film.
    Others wanted a Black Panther film where he beat the heck out of white guys in some fake woke moment.
    Chuck Clayton on Riverdale-they went with the black male predator of females intro and not the cartoonist nice guy version in comics. Funny thing is that episode was done by a black woman.
    Ms Marvel backlash because she's Muslim. How dare Marvel try to show those people as human and YES I heard a person say that.
    How many tv shows have showcased asexual black males in the cast? Like Young Justice is doing with Static.


    There is a battle to showcase true variety of everyone.

  13. #28
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colossus1980 View Post
    Where is the Rogues' Gallery for NorthStar?

    How can any hero become popular without a Rogue's Gallery?

    The lack of brand new villains makes it hard for any hero to get a successful push. NorthStar is just another faceless hero in the vast hordes of Marvel fandom where it's hard to breakout and stay popular.
    A lot of Marvel flagships don't have good rogues galleries, like Punisher or Captain Marvel. It's something that can always be worked on, but not a requirement for success, especially when your stories aren't focused on that kind of conflict.

  14. #29
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    It's easy to say you don't want the media to be a mirror-if you are seeing a variety of representation of you.
    Interesting of you to say that to me in particular, considering how I'm half-Puerto Rican and half-Korean, and, I can enjoy and connect to non-Puerto Ricans/Koreans just fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    I think the point is too many folks use the media as a barometer to judge segments of folks. So the cries of better representation comes out.

    As does the push back.
    Well that just sounds foolish to use movies to judge segments of folks. Everyone should learn at some point in their lives to not treat movies/shows/whatever media as if they're gods that present everything, as if everything they show is objective and factual. To go on readily believing everything you see in movies is foolish and ignorant. No matter who you are, foolishness is something that shouldn't always be accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Well the issue is any attempt to showcase certain demos beyond stereotypes is met with pushback. And some of that push back can come from the very demo themselves.

    Take Black Panther movie-there were folks who took issue with the WOMEN having meaty roles in the film.
    Others wanted a Black Panther film where he beat the heck out of white guys in some fake woke moment.
    Chuck Clayton on Riverdale-they went with the black male predator of females intro and not the cartoonist nice guy version in comics. Funny thing is that episode was done by a black woman.
    Ms Marvel backlash because she's Muslim. How dare Marvel try to show those people as human and YES I heard a person say that.
    How many tv shows have showcased asexual black males in the cast? Like Young Justice is doing with Static.


    There is a battle to showcase true variety of everyone.
    Ah, sounds like the battle is indeed extending beyond the screen, in that many fools need to have their own worldviews and actions changed up, which media alone can't fix. If showcasing true variety of everyone can help start that, then cool, though again, media can only do so much to fix that. If people out of the kindness in their own hearts are so much as concerned about how majorities and minorities treat each other, then at that point, I think it's reasonable enough to ask what people can do beyond complaining on the internet and the screen, and how the majorities and minorities can better communicate and collaborate towards a better future.

  15. #30
    Mighty Member Valamist's Avatar
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    I have wondered why, especially nowadays, Marvel is not pushing Northstar. I mean, when was he really used in a main role last? I like him personally, even if I have not read that much about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    There's something about this mindset with the way people express it to me that just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Like, last I checked, the many consumers of entertainment I've seen want to be entertained by media, not treat media like it's a mirror. If it involves an issue that extends beyond the media itself, then perhaps more can be done to help find a solution to that issue to the best of one's ability?
    Why not both? You can have entertaining stories that do reflect real-life representation and issues. Heck, fictional media is one of the best places to explore these things. Look at the X-Men, for example. Many people find them entertaining, and many people also enjoy the repesentation and social message that comes with them. Not only that, but a more diverse pool of character and cultures can help make a more creative pool to work from.

    I mean sure, fiction is not going to solve all of the problems of the world, but it can help.
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