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  1. #1
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    Default Why doesn't DC respect for Wonder Woman.

    Wonder Woman is my favorite DC female character and for the world of me I don't under why Diana is treated like the BLACKSHEEP of the Trinity Icons.i've done a lil research of current books and (Batman) has Batgirl.Catwoman.Harley Quinn.Nightwing.RedHood.Batman Beyond.Detective Comic.Batman and the Outsiders.n counting his own that's (9) Batman related books.(Superman) has Supergirl.and Action Comic not as many as the Bat but at least their's 2.compared to Diana we just have Wonder Woman.DC has given Katana.Vibe.Batwoman.Superwoman.New Super-man.Starfire.Cyborg.Omac just to name a few.when are we going to see MORE from Diana's family tree.Artemis.Nubia.Troia.Wonder Girl.Fury.Grace Choi.all of these Women deserve the attention and respect that DC give's her counterparts.and please let's not talk about supply and demand n who's popular.how did they get that way.they had writers and artist who told great stories.so if you can't take a character and make it work maybe you're in the wrong business.that being said DC give the AMAZONS some attention and respect.ongoing or mini's anything is better than nothing.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    A lot of it has to deal with she is a woman and the writers. Each writer never builds on each other’s stuff. Not only that but the fact her villains have never been used right. Circe been beaten by Batman easily. A lot has to deal with she is a woman. She is only leading lady Dc has. Yea Harley Quinn might be somewhat known now but Diana is more public figures
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    They gave her Sensation Comics but it didn’t sell well enough to sustain it. They should relaunch it around the same time the WW1984 movie comes out though, maybe it will sell better now.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They gave her Sensation Comics but it didn’t sell well enough to sustain it. They should relaunch it around the same time the WW1984 movie comes out though, maybe it will sell better now.
    I don't think the movies have any positive impact on comicbook sales.

    As for the topic, most of Diana's cast is boring on their own, so having their own solos wouldn't be as interesting as say, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Batgirl and Nightwing. Of the trinity, she has the weakest supporting cast.

    Diana is significantly more popular than her supporting cast, and even then, you could make the argument that Diana spends less time with her own personal supports since she's usually with the Justice League in some way.
    Last edited by KangMiRae; 07-25-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    However, that's really on the main titles. Every time when there is an elseworld like Legends both her and her supporting cast are interesting. It's the writers not getting the supporting cast. There was a reason Etta Candy was very Popular.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KangMiRae View Post
    I don't think the movies have any positive impact on comicbook sales.

    As for the topic, most of Diana's cast is boring on their own, so having their own solos wouldn't be as interesting as say, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Batgirl and Nightwing. Of the trinity, she has the weakest supporting cast.

    Diana is significantly more popular than her supporting cast, and even then, you could make the argument that Diana spends less time with her own personal supports since she's usually with the Justice League in some way.
    Her supporting cast isn't weak. They just aren't given as many chances.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    First, entrenched misogyny within the comics industry (on all levels).

    Second, Wonder Woman was constructed as a subversive character, and arguably even Marston didn't understand how subversive she was in her construction. I think nearly every writer who set out to dig into her found something that they (or DC) recoiled over and felt the need to remove and paper over. This contributed to the constant "fixes" and reboots.

    As for her supporting cast, I think the difference in construction between Batman and Superman on one hand, and Wonder Woman on the other, led to some differences from the beginning. Batman and Superman are rather bland in their personalities—they were meant as imprints for reader projection. That caused the characters around them to be more colourful to compensate, and provide texture to the stories. But Wonder Woman was meant more as a person to follow, or some sort of weird kink fantasy of Marston's. The reader projection was more supposed to be pointing at Steve, causing him to be rather bland.

    With these three factors combined it's no surprise that DC's usual stable of writers had trouble wrapping their head around the character and her supporting cast.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #8
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    Writers can be a-holes
    Gal Gadot displayed how
    Wonder Woman should be
    In the Wonder Woman film
    And how she should not
    In Justice League film
    The common denominator is
    Everything came from a written
    Script
    the internet has been user friendly
    Active for over twenty years and
    During most of that time we
    Fans of Wonder Woman have discussed
    How she was being used in her own
    And other comics and for the most part
    It has been very weak and many
    Times bad. We all know who Diana
    is, what her strengths are and
    Her ......... we know what her strengths
    Are and D C has constantly written and
    Spoken what they are and how
    Powerful and smart she is and
    How she is a top fighter and we
    All know about how loving she is
    And how stern she is in her beliefs
    And yet (surely for decades now)
    D C management and editorial
    Has allowed her to be written and
    Portrayed in comics as a character
    Be fitting C-List status.
    Each and every person who has
    Written Wonder Woman could
    Have portrayed her in ways that
    Showcased how smart and powerful
    And resourceful she is and how
    She can think and plan at a high level,
    And yet what we have seen is the
    Endless Diana needs to learn a lesson
    In humilty ........ Diana is not Superman
    And Diana is not Batman
    She is a commercial marketing
    Image whos place is selling
    Products to people who do not
    Read comics but like looking
    At her image on a bag or
    Shirt and her only job in
    Comics is to put every one
    Else over.

  9. #9
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Ah, she gets about the same amount of respect she deserves. More often than not, if you giver her an additional title you'd just have two bad wonder Woman titles than one.
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  10. #10
    Mighty Member My Two Cents's Avatar
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    the irony is if Wonder Woman got cancelled
    And became just a visitor in other characters
    Books she would probably end up being
    Depicted the way many wished she was
    Because than the proverbial shoe would
    Be on other characters who need to
    Be constantly fallible and more human
    So the reader could more relate to
    There plight as they read issue to issue.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Also, in one way DC is way too respectful to the character: they don't want to rock the boat. And in G Willow Wilson's words, "our instincts as writers is just to pile on gravitas". There are very few writers who have managed to connect back to Marston's sassy and quipping Diana.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by My Two Cents View Post
    the irony is if Wonder Woman got cancelled
    ...
    I think here is one of the problems: DC can't cancel Wonder Woman. Per the contract with Dr. Marston, if WW isn't published at least 4 times a year, all rights to the character automatically revert to Marston or his heirs. (I know that some people claim that this is no longer true, but others say it still is.) DC _has_ to publish her, and maybe the pressure stifles creativity, or they simply don't like being pressured. Other superheroes have been killed off for some years and then relaunched gloriously (Supergirl, Captain America).

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    To be honest, Batman has it easy because introducing new characters isn't so hard in-mythos (it can be harder to sell them to the readership, however). They are basically all humans (or low-level metas in the case of the Signal). Superman's extended family is already trickier, because of his origins, so they have to be from Krypton (Supergirl) or his heirs (Superboys, all of them, are/were his legacy).

    As for Diana well... For a start, her foundations excludes the possibility of having a boy/man coming from Themiscyra and thus sharing her history and values from the get go. And her Paradise Island being an isolationist society to boot, you can't have her be their lone Champion to the world and have half a dozen other Amazons out there with her without diluting her brand, like having that many Kryptonian flying around make it harder to sell Superman as the Last Son of Krypton.

    Compounded to that, you have the fact that her supporting cast isn't very interesting. Steve is basically bland military action guy, so he could start in bland military/spy comics, where the only originality is when he'll get his ass handed to him, his love-interest will save him - which I would like but would be seen as emasculating to many, sadly- or he would be made super-competent, to the point that the interest of having Wonder Woman in the comics instead of it being entirely removed from her corner of the DCU.

    The more time passes, the more I think that Marston didn't leave behind good foundations at all for this character, and I'm even starting to be really afraid for her next movie, which I fear could turn into a nostalgia-filled rom-com (I really hope I'm wrong here) and that fact, compounded with the many mistreatment, sexism and bad ideas which have plagued Wonder Woman have left here in a rather poor position. Compared to the current Captain Marvel run, I haven't felt her powerful and passionate since the end of Azzarello run. Ever since Rebirth started, she's fairly bland and boring, and sadly GWW so far hasn't been able to push her up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    To be honest, Batman has it easy because introducing new characters isn't so hard in-mythos (it can be harder to sell them to the readership, however). They are basically all humans (or low-level metas in the case of the Signal). Superman's extended family is already trickier, because of his origins, so they have to be from Krypton (Supergirl) or his heirs (Superboys, all of them, are/were his legacy).

    As for Diana well... For a start, her foundations excludes the possibility of having a boy/man coming from Themiscyra and thus sharing her history and values from the get go. And her Paradise Island being an isolationist society to boot, you can't have her be their lone Champion to the world and have half a dozen other Amazons out there with her without diluting her brand, like having that many Kryptonian flying around make it harder to sell Superman as the Last Son of Krypton.

    Compounded to that, you have the fact that her supporting cast isn't very interesting. Steve is basically bland military action guy, so he could start in bland military/spy comics, where the only originality is when he'll get his ass handed to him, his love-interest will save him - which I would like but would be seen as emasculating to many, sadly- or he would be made super-competent, to the point that the interest of having Wonder Woman in the comics instead of it being entirely removed from her corner of the DCU.

    The more time passes, the more I think that Marston didn't leave behind good foundations at all for this character, and I'm even starting to be really afraid for her next movie, which I fear could turn into a nostalgia-filled rom-com (I really hope I'm wrong here) and that fact, compounded with the many mistreatment, sexism and bad ideas which have plagued Wonder Woman have left here in a rather poor position. Compared to the current Captain Marvel run, I haven't felt her powerful and passionate since the end of Azzarello run. Ever since Rebirth started, she's fairly bland and boring, and sadly GWW so far hasn't been able to push her up.
    The one time Themyscira was actually an isolationist nation was in Azzarello's run. Literally every run other than that one has had people coming and going to Themyscira with relative ease. And having other Amazons running around wasn't an issue pre-Flashpoint between Artemis, Cassie, Donna and whatever other Amazon they chose to focus on.

    As for Steve, he's been written well at times and written poorly at others same as any other supporting character.

    The one thing you may be right on is having a male character coming from Themyscira and to be blunt that is not something that is needed or even greatly desired.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The one time Themyscira was actually an isolationist nation was in Azzarello's run. Literally every run other than that one has had people coming and going to Themyscira with relative ease. And having other Amazons running around wasn't an issue pre-Flashpoint between Artemis, Cassie, Donna and whatever other Amazon they chose to focus on.

    As for Steve, he's been written well at times and written poorly at others same as any other supporting character.

    The one thing you may be right on is having a male character coming from Themyscira and to be blunt that is not something that is needed or even greatly desired.
    Paradise Island is closed to Men and the Outside World, largely. To pretend that because they hadn't a wall or something for most of their history doesn't make them isolationists is disingenuous; they are isolationists. And sexists, no matter how Marston and those who wrote Wonder Woman after him tried to pretend. They reduce men and women to some "essential" elements which defines if one is good or evil. If you stand for what they call "Men World's" (which is in truth Toxic Masculinity and not the world of just Men, if I'm clear on the difference here) you're evil; if not you're good. Writers also almost always conflated the Monotheistic God's inherent misogyny with Zeus' when it makes no sense to spat on him and his Pantheon that way : Athena, Hera, Aphrodite and Artemis, to name a few, offered far more to women than God ever did, even if Athenians were far from gender equals indeed.

    Because of this, characters like Cassie, tied to the mythological elements of the Wonder Woman mythos are not very connected to the Amazons themselves. Donna is a mess and has been for so long that at this point, short of just embracing it, I don't know how it could be solved. And Artemis has mostly been used outside of the Wonder books since she returned and so far, her best and most defining relationships are with Rebirth Akila, Jason Todd and Bizarro, the latter two of which works so well with her that it's mind-blowing, IMHO. And while I don't doubt they can write a lot of stories with her and Diana, I don't really see her able to support a solo spin-off title. Her being "subservient" to Diana wouldn't work.

    As for a male character coming from Themyscira being not needed nor wanted, I'm pretty sure the same thing was said in reverse for characters like Batgirl, Spoiler, Orphan, Batwoman or Supergirl. They were wrong, of course.

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