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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Given DCU seems to be building its own little mini universe - one that's conceptually larger-scale than any other live-action DCU before it but keeping to the fringes of that world - I'm adamant that the only appearance of Superman in there should be Superboy muttering FUCK Superman, and then the scene cuts for a few seconds to Jon Hamm at the Daily Planet gasping in heartbroken horror.
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  2. #17
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    This thread has reached its logical and correct conclusion.
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  3. #18
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Having a Superman show could be really great for getting attention to the streaming service. But the question is where would it’s trademark swearing and violence fit in? Would Superman drop some F-bombs? maybe a little as Clark the mild mannered reporter? Lois and Lex would probably drop a dozen f-bombs per episodes. Which is fine but I’m more worried about making the action too brutal. Don’t get me wrong I love Doom Patrol and like Swamp Thing and wouldn’t change a thing. But I don’t know if it’s a good fit for Superman. I’d still choose the streaming service over a cw show, (which I’d still watch).

  4. #19
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    There is very little swearing in Swamp Thing and I doubt there will be any in Stargirl.

  5. #20
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I too want to see Clark deal with contemporary issues.....which is actually one of the reasons I want a more Golden Age style narrative (with modern undertones of course) set in the 40's. That allows you to tackle issues like racism, sexism, corruption in government and business, etc., without being so on the nose about it.

    I also think the period-piece setting would provide some wiggle room for a more socially conscious and involved Clark. People have a very firm idea of who and what Superman is, and it's a pretty narrow definition (generic) that the character himself has never really fit, or tried to fit. A period-piece is going to signal to people that this isn't "traditional" Superman the way they understand him, which means they'll be more likely to accept things (like sticking his nose into politics) that they wouldn't with "classic" Superman. Basically, I see it as a way to circumvent the "it's not like Donner/DCAU/pop culture Superman!" crap.

    Like, in "It's Superman!" Clark smokes cigarettes. You could never get away with that in a story set in 2019 but it works fine for 1937. Not that I think Clark should smoke, but it's an example of how a period-piece can get away with things a current-day story can't and how it changes audiences' perceptions and expectations....which means we could get away from Donner without people bitching quite as much.
    I think that could work beautifully. Clark being a tough reporter in the 30s makes a lot more sense than 2019. The Daily Planet can actually BE something.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-27-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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  6. #21
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Being on HBOMax or DCU doesn't mean Superman would have to swear or be really violent. It just means the actual writing and storytelling can be mature and innovative. Bad things happen in the world and we get to see Superman, this wonderful leftist sun deity, confront those things.

    I think "Clark Kent" is pivotal to making a show work. He needs equal time as Clark Kent in Metropolis, paying rent to some egotistical landlord group, trying to make a difference and still fly under the radar, meeting Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Jimmy, Bill Henderson, etc. He needs to be surrounded by everyday people.

    Lois Lane prolly swears a lot though, let's be honest.
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  7. #22
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    I'd want a high quality animated series that can jump to the big screen for animated features dealing with the big events.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Being on HBOMax or DCU doesn't mean Superman would have to swear or be really violent. It just means the actual writing and storytelling can be mature and innovative. Bad things happen in the world and we get to see Superman, this wonderful leftist sun deity, confront those things.

    I think "Clark Kent" is pivotal to making a show work. He needs equal time as Clark Kent in Metropolis, paying rent to some egotistical landlord group, trying to make a difference and still fly under the radar, meeting Lex Luthor, Lois Lane, Jimmy, Bill Henderson, etc. He needs to be surrounded by everyday people.

    Lois Lane prolly swears a lot though, let's be honest.
    Yeah, you can do mature content, swearing, and violence without Clark being the guy dropping F-bombs. The people *around* him (like Lois, who certainly swears like a soldier) might swear, and the violence Clark comes across might be a lot more visceral and realistic, but that doesn't mean Clark is going to be tearing people in half.
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  9. #24
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Given DCU seems to be building its own little mini universe - one that's conceptually larger-scale than any other live-action DCU before it but keeping to the fringes of that world - I'm adamant that the only appearance of Superman in there should be Superboy muttering FUCK Superman, and then the scene cuts for a few seconds to Jon Hamm at the Daily Planet gasping in heartbroken horror.
    .........okay, that's it. Thread's over. Nothing more to see here folks!
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, you can do mature content, swearing, and violence without Clark being the guy dropping F-bombs. The people *around* him (like Lois, who certainly swears like a soldier) might swear, and the violence Clark comes across might be a lot more visceral and realistic, but that doesn't mean Clark is going to be tearing people in half.
    Frankly, I don’t think violence is where you would even see or feel the mature label.

    The reality is that the love scenes between Lois and Clark have always been just barely getting by the rating for decades now. Superman 2, in retrospect, was kind of unheard of for 1980 in its frankness. The love scenes on “Lois and Clark” in retrospect were pretty racy for ABC family night TV. I rewatched some of it recently and it was not at all PG in some parts. Smallville’s Lois and Clark sex scenes were probably the most graphic of all of them. I’m thinking of the scenes when Lois winds up in bed with Clark in the alternate future timeline which just barely made a TV14 rating. Even Batman vs. Superman had one of its most pivotal Lois/Clark scenes cut for rating and the full version (when he gets in the tub with her and she’s gripping his back) is sadly only on the R rated cut.

    So, yes, Lois definitely drops F bombs. But the “maturity” in Superman doesn’t really come from cursing or OOC violence. It never has. It is usually found in the reality that their relationship is distinctly and poignantly sexual. It’s never been a chaste relationship despite Superman’s reputation as a boyscout. There is more blatant sex in Superman media than all the Batman media combined. Batman has the reputation as the playboy but the truth is he’s often cut off from relationships a lot in his media so you may get a fleeting one night stand but love making is not really part of his sustained narrative vs. Superman where his most central relationship is a sexual relationship.

    I’m not saying you would start getting love scenes like you find on Outlander (though I know a lot of women would welcome that) but that’s absolutely where you would see the rating in play. Which would be fine by me because I’m of the opinion that watching people get shot and beaten to a pulp and shot in media is far more damaging to young people than healthy, consensual sex.
    Last edited by Nelliebly; 07-28-2019 at 10:39 PM.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Frankly, I don’t think violence is where you would even see or feel the mature label.
    No, violence is not where the Mature label comes in. America is quite comfortable with outlandish levels of violence and gore....as long as there's no boobs or swearing it's all good.

    We're an odd people.

    But my point stands; you can do a mature Superman show and tackle mature topics without actually changing or twisting Clark's character. All you have to do is put him in mature situations. Have him stop an attempted rape instead of a mugging, have him deal with human trafficking instead of an alien invasion, etc. That sorta thing. "Mature" is about topic and how you deal with it, not how many body parts get ripped off a person or whether you get to see some side-boob in a sex scene.
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  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think that could work beautifully. Clark being a tough reporter in the 30s makes a lot more sense than 2019. The Daily Planet can actually BE something.
    I knew you'd get what I was putting down if I explained it.
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  13. #28
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I think you can still tell a modern story with the Daily Planet, though I'm sort of the opinion that Clark shouldn't necessarily have his traditional role. I think that works great for Lois and Jimmy. After all, despite their diminished reach newspapers still are a thing and they still hire staff to write articles. And if you really want to delve into humanistic conflicts, make it about how the Planet's readership and influence are at all-time lows since the paper came into existence. Even if Superman were no longer Daily Planet reporter Clark Kent, he can still have relationships with Lois and Jimmy, be concerned with covering the news, and uncovering hidden truths that the public must know. Hell, make him an intern there so that he can learn things like how to write an objective story, how to make professional contacts/sources, etc.

    Full disclosure: I'm projecting a bit. I hate the current state of news, and how most media sources editorializes coverage because echo chamber reporting makes is more profitable than telling bland and accurate stories. Many Supermans tales from the past focused on how he didn't want to hold humanity's hand throughout all of its struggles, maybe he, as Clark Kent, can help people to learn to think for themselves instead of submitting themselves to demagoguery.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think any story set in the modern day with the Planet should tackle the state of print and news media, absolutely. I think there's a lot of potential in portraying the Planet as a slowly failing, crumbling institution that's also one of the last bastions of real, unbiased truth and journalistic integrity (even if almost nobody notices that because no one reads the paper anymore). In fact, given Clark's struggling popularity I think there's a whole lot of juicy parallels to play with.

    If you're going to run with the idea that the Planet is, somehow, still successful that has to be addressed too. Why and how does this paper still pull a solid circulation? Is the print industry in the DCU still alive and healthy and if so, why? If the Planet's situation is different from papers in the real world, that's worth exploring too, though I fear many readers would find the idea of a healthy newspaper in today's world more strange and unbelievable than alien invasions.

    If you decide to change the Planet into a more contemporary news outlet that's largely based online, you gotta dig into that too, because that operates very differently from a traditional, old school paper. DC has tried that a few times, saying the Planet went digital and is doing very well for itself....but it never actually feels like they updated and everything still looks and operates the same way on the page, which causes the same kind of dissonance you see when DC pretends the Planet is still a successful newspaper.

    No matter what, you gotta deal with the Planet. News media is on everyone's mind these days and you can't just ignore that or underplay it. This is one of the biggest parts of Superman's mythology and it's a topic that gets a lot of attention now, as well as being an industry trying to redefine itself for the 21st century. Why anyone would want to brush all that aside and ignore the fun stuff you could do with it......
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-29-2019 at 02:32 PM.
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  15. #30
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    No, violence is not where the Mature label comes in. America is quite comfortable with outlandish levels of violence and gore....as long as there's no boobs or swearing it's all good.

    We're an odd people.

    But my point stands; you can do a mature Superman show and tackle mature topics without actually changing or twisting Clark's character. All you have to do is put him in mature situations. Have him stop an attempted rape instead of a mugging, have him deal with human trafficking instead of an alien invasion, etc. That sorta thing. "Mature" is about topic and how you deal with it, not how many body parts get ripped off a person or whether you get to see some side-boob in a sex scene.
    I agree completely. show a darker world but keep Clark pure. Heck, I'd be fine with him swearing rarely if he was really pissed. I rather he does that (which is very human and happens to the best of us) than to show him hurting or breaking valuable stuff and people.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Frankly, I don’t think violence is where you would even see or feel the mature label.

    The reality is that the love scenes between Lois and Clark have always been just barely getting by the rating for decades now. Superman 2, in retrospect, was kind of unheard of for 1980 in its frankness. The love scenes on “Lois and Clark” in retrospect were pretty racy for ABC family night TV. I rewatched some of it recently and it was not at all PG in some parts. Smallville’s Lois and Clark sex scenes were probably the most graphic of all of them. I’m thinking of the scenes when Lois winds up in bed with Clark in the alternate future timeline which just barely made a TV14 rating. Even Batman vs. Superman had one of its most pivotal Lois/Clark scenes cut for rating and the full version (when he gets in the tub with her and she’s gripping his back) is sadly only on the R rated cut.

    So, yes, Lois definitely drops F bombs. But the “maturity” in Superman doesn’t really come from cursing or OOC violence. It never has. It is usually found in the reality that their relationship is distinctly and poignantly sexual. It’s never been a chaste relationship despite Superman’s reputation as a boyscout. There is more blatant sex in Superman media than all the Batman media combined. Batman has the reputation as the playboy but the truth is he’s often cut off from relationships a lot in his media so you may get a fleeting one night stand but love making is not really part of his sustained narrative vs. Superman where his most central relationship is a sexual relationship.

    I’m not saying you would start getting love scenes like you find on Outlander (though I know a lot of women would welcome that) but that’s absolutely where you would see the rating in play. Which would be fine by me because I’m of the opinion that watching people get shot and beaten to a pulp and shot in media is far more damaging to young people than healthy, consensual sex.
    I'm still shocked Superman 2 showed them in a bed together (obvs after sex lol). Even the animated movies like Superman: Doomsday show them very intimate in her apartment. I think people are already used to see Clark and Lois very into each other and even expect it as long as it's consensual and healthy. The Supergirl show also shows Kara and Alex making out with people.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 07-29-2019 at 02:47 PM.

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