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  1. #136
    Mighty Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Titans are not a light Justice League. I don't care about the JL but I will aways be interested in everything about Titans.
    What really matter is that the writer is able to understand what means beeing a Titan.
    Titans is family, Titans is legacy, Titans is fun.
    Since N52 no writer has been able to reflect any of these in the books. Teen Titans, Titans Hunt and Titans was bad cause were missing of all these concepts.

  2. #137
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Who would buy a Titans book written by Lemire and Venditti with art by Jim Cheung?
    Well, like someone else said, Cheung can't keep to a monthly schedule.....but still, f**k yeah I'd check that out. I mean, whether I stuck with it would depend on the story itself but if you're looking for quality this is the kind of lineup I keep an eye out for (except perhaps Venditti, who's not usually my cup of tea)

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Importance is the problem. Frankly, speaking their totem pole sucks. JLA getting more importance than either titans or jsa is overrated. They had a chance with rebirth. They could have used titans with the big doomsday clock mystery. They blew it. Taking them off the shelf might further reduce their importance, i fear. Look at the legion,3 reboots and no stability in site.
    The hierarchy of DC does indeed suck. But it is what it is. >shrug< I mean, if I were in charge of the place that ideology would be downplayed a whole, whole lot (the big names are still the money makers so you're not gonna completely escape it, but DC shouldn't be a slave to it either). However, I'm not the guy in charge.

    I feel, all the editorial needs to do is treat titans as group of young heroes competent enough to take on JLA if they want to. Not sidekicks or teens. Give them a mission statement that affects the DCU as a whole. Give them back their close as family friendship dynamics and individual/team history.Heck! Have them be in conflict with Jl from time to time. Give them back cyborg. You can say that he became a jlaer, later. But, make it seem like if push came to shove cyborg will be a titan.have them be mentors to younger generations. That is it.
    I really think the problem is that DC looks at the Titans as being a bunch of kids/young adults just out of college and entering their first "real" job. Largely inexperienced but capable of getting through the day without setting the photocopier on fire, occasionally showing their full potential but never really reaching it and still having plenty left to learn. And I think there isn't really any narrative road left to drive down; the NTT became a big deal because they were allowed to grow and evolve....but they haven't in thirty years. Its asinine to think you can remove one of the big draws of the IP and still have it be equally successful.

    So I say take each individual NTT/Fab5 and decide what they do when they hit that next phase of life. Once they're past that first entry level job, what do they do? Once you've done that, then you can see how they might still fit together as a group, and those new status quo's (full-on adulthood instead of early adulthood) will open up new stories and possibilities for the Titans.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-31-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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  3. #138
    Wolfy Supreme TimberWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I honestly don't think anything can be done. I think the Titans is a dead franchise. Characters too old to be doing the same things they did before, but also they can never fully join or step over the Justice League. They are stuck. The books will still sell decent but it will never be a comic that will satisfy people. Too many readers what to see different things. Some want to read about Dick's generation, others want to read about Tim's generation, and some even want to read about Damian's new generation. Some want to see Dick's gen move on from the franchise and change focus to the younger heroes, and others want to see Dick's gen play babysitter and watch over the younger generation. Some want to see them work with the Justice League and others want to see them be completely independent. It is a mess.

    The X-Men have a consistent central theme to all their stories. It is about the Mutans and their struggle, but the Titans don't have a central theme. The closest they have to one is "young heroes teaming up and learning to be heroes together", but as you add more and more older Titans characters you lose that theme I feel. I think the only way for the franchise to have some massive revival is if DC rebooted completely and Dick is Robin again. I think the franchise is in too much of a mess and the story potential is too thin to have a massive revival as things are now.
    Titans isn't a dead franchise and a GOOD writer could write good Titans stories. It's not like DC had their best talent on the most recent Titans books.
    Please Remain Calm

  4. #139
    Wolfy Supreme TimberWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    You guys are still missing my point, obviously itís better that if your going to do something then they should take the time and put in the work to do it right. Its not even about capitalizing on the TV show (even though they seemingly try to with pretty much every other property that even farts in other media). My point is how doing nothing right now would make those managing the comic department look professionally. How can they do nothing when other departments are doing successful things with the brand, introducing the brand into different mediums, all while the brand still has an audience within the comic market.
    Which is why they havenít shelved the brand, even though itís clearly not a brand those running the comic department for DC want to really develop or do much with anymore. If they could shelf it, they probably would. Especially with YJ and the new Wonder line covering their teen characters. But as soon as someone asks why they are shelving it, what are they suppose to say. Well we donít like it, or we canít or donít want to work on it so weíre just gonna wait till someone maybe someday comes along and does that job for us. Thereís no way that goes over. They canít just shelf a property cause they either donít want to, or are just too incompetent, to do their job with it. The Teen Titans/Titans brand might not be DCís biggest property, but itís still not that small. Itís their job to continue to develop and do things with these brands and properties. So they canít reasonably just do nothing and hope someday maybe someone will eventually come along and do it for them. And so we get these mediocre, half assed, Teen Titans and Titans books, with mediocre create teams, that are easily fed to other brands that they value more.
    We're really not missing your point, we just disagree with you.
    Please Remain Calm

  5. #140
    Wolfy Supreme TimberWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Nah DC pushed hard with McKeever after Johns left with Didio personally editing the book. Except of course their entire gambit on the Countdown related writers failed miserably.
    Why is Didio editing a Titans book a good thing? He literally hates the Titans. The sheer number of Titans who have been killed on Didio's watch is reason enough not to by a Titans book he personally edited. The man has absolutely any business anywhere near a Titans book.
    Please Remain Calm

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimberWolf View Post
    Titans isn't a dead franchise
    It is dead comic book franchise. The readership is no longer there. DC knows this and that's why they puts c and d-list writers on there. If you put an a-lister there, there is simply no guarantee that sales won't evaporate after they are gone (and for DC a-listers are expensive). Contrast that with Uncanny even after years of bad writers it's still pulling 40K.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberWolf View Post
    Why is Didio editing a Titans book a good thing? He literally hates the Titans.
    Because it meant that he had a greater stake in the success of the book and the writer .
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 07-31-2019 at 07:05 PM.

  7. #142
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Readership was there though, that wasn't really its problem. Even the Bendis supported YJ is only doing marginally better then the current TTs.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-31-2019 at 07:45 PM.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    It is dead comic book franchise. The readership is no longer there. DC knows this and that's why they puts c and d-list writers on there. If you put an a-lister there, there is simply no guarantee that sales won't evaporate after they are gone (and for DC a-listers are expensive). Contrast that with Uncanny even after years of bad writers it's still pulling 40K.
    Uh, you know that the Titans were pulling similar numbers, even after years of sabotage from editorial, don't you??

    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...6/2016-12.html
    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...7/2017-03.html
    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...7/2017-10.html

    The decrease in the Titans readership was because of bad directions insisted upon by editorial. This is the same regime that literally insisted that the Titans break up because the Justice League told them to do so.

  9. #144
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    It is dead comic book franchise. The readership is no longer there. DC knows this and that's why they puts c and d-list writers on there. If you put an a-lister there, there is simply no guarantee that sales won't evaporate after they are gone (and for DC a-listers are expensive). Contrast that with Uncanny even after years of bad writers it's still pulling 40K.


    Because it meant that he had a greater stake in the success of the book and the writer .
    Just because someone is editing a line or a book doesn't mean they're invested. Andrew Helfer became the editor during Grayson's run on Titans and his first idea was to can all the ideas going on at the time to introduce a bunch of DEO kids that would take over the Titans book. In interviews he still refered to Dick and Donna as Robin or Wonder Girl, he did not care. Editors are not writers and they shouldn't be. They are there to maintain the brand, keep writers in check and maintain quality constituency and continuity. There are plenty of editors over the years at DC and even now that feel like they either do nothing or high jack a book to do whatever they want. No one seems invested in the characters or stories, just the changes they want to make over the actual creative team. Doesn't seem like there are any great stakes to me, books die all the time and it's the norm at DC. I don't want Titans to be one of them and it feels like we are slowly getting to that point.
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  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    Just because someone is editing a line or a book doesn't mean they're invested.
    1) This isn't my analysis, but rather the conclusion of a former DC editor who knew Didio.

    2) He was executive editor at that time and TT wasn't part of his portfolio (it was Berganza's) that he apparently took over for the run up to Final Crisis. So yes it certainly seemed that he had a stake in everything (especially given they were throwing books left and right at McKeever and trying to make him into their next A-lister).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Uh, you know that the Titans were pulling similar numbers, even after years of sabotage from editorial, don't you??

    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...6/2016-12.html
    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...7/2017-03.html
    https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...7/2017-10.html
    I am not sure what you are trying to prove. The first two months you posted had a sales boost from Rebirth and the last one had a boost from Snyder's Metal Crossover. So in other words they are not typical sales for a TT book, but rather artificially inflated by events.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 07-31-2019 at 08:23 PM.

  11. #146
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    1) This isn't my analysis, but rather the conclusion of a former DC editor who knew Didio.

    2) He was executive editor at that time and TT wasn't part of his portfolio (it was Berganza's) that he apparently took over for the run up to Final Crisis.
    My point doesn't change. Just because someone is editing a lone or a book doesn't mean they're invested. That applies to anyone who is slacking in their duties as an editor.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by failo.legendkiller View Post
    Titans are not a light Justice League. I don't care about the JL but I will aways be interested in everything about Titans.
    What really matter is that the writer is able to understand what means beeing a Titan.
    Titans is family, Titans is legacy, Titans is fun.
    Since N52 no writer has been able to reflect any of these in the books. Teen Titans, Titans Hunt and Titans was bad cause were missing of all these concepts.
    Titans Hunt showed potential, but when Titans was launched -- most of that potential was lost. Who knew that bringing back Wally would so negatively affect the series -- every issue seemed like a spotlight on Wally. Hawk and Dove didn't even appear, and Mal and Karen were handled poorly.

    I do agree that Teen Titans should be fun. The characters should enjoy being together and having adventures. That's not to say there can't be internal drama which is always bound to occur -- even among a close knit group of friends. Now, Titans, the former teens, would be more about the group tackling more weighty issues -- and maybe putting the JLA in theiir place when needed instead of buckling under to their demands.

  13. #148
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'm conflicted about what to do with the Titans. On one hand, they have A LOT of history that I hate seeing go to waste in the post Flashpoint Universe (Cyborg being the one who suffered the most from that). But on the other hand, DCs continuity as a whole has become so cluttered and convoluted (again) that simply bringing that old legacy back could create more problems than it solves. I loved the pre-Flashpoint Titans so much that I'd totally look the other way if, one day, their history was magically reinstated and everyone acted like it's always been that way. But I know that isn't a realistic or particularly good approach to the situation. So, barring another reality altering event, there's nothing that really can be done aside from moving forward and working with what we have now.

    For starters: I've always been back and forth on it in the past, but right now, I do like the idea of the Titans being split into two teams. Titans for the adult members, Teen Titans for the younger ones.

    The first thing the Titans need to re-establish is that they do NOT nor will they EVER answer to the Justice League. Their days as sidekicks are over. The League are their colleagues, not their superiors. They don't follow the League's orders. They don't do work for League unless it's them doing a favor. They are their own separate entity. I don't ever wanna see Dick being made into a Batbitch like that ever again.

    As for the roster, I know it's an unpopular opinion because of how popular these characters are...but I want it to be mostly NTT. Raven and Gar should not still be treated like kids. And Vic...I'm plucking his ass out of the League and putting him back where he belongs.

    As for the Teen Titans, I do like SOME of the current roster. I'd keep Damian. I'd keep Djinn. MAYBE Crush too. But Billy, Emiko, and Wallace need to leave. In Billy and Wallace's case, preferably onto a bus that's driving off a cliff. Emiko...I don't dislike but she's never really felt like she belongs there. If she just HAD to be on a team, I'd probably put her on the Outsiders. Or maybe Birds of Prey. To replace those three, I'd definitely throw in Jon and Maya (who should have been the first two people Damian went to) and...I don't know, give the third slot to anyone. Aqualad maybe. Or bring back Collin Wilkes. I'd also do away with this whole "edgy" approach they've been trying to pull off. The Teen Titans have always naturally had enough angst to spare without needing to spell out that they're the angsty ones. Aside from that secret prison Damian had, that nobody else knew about, they weren't even really doing anything to be considered the mini edge lord's that they were being painted as. So just drop the dumb gimmick already. The fucking team from the YJ cartoon are more rebellious than them. That said, now that they don't have their faux edge to fall back on, they're gonna need something else to differentiate them from Young Justice...get back to me on that. I'll think of something eventually.

    But overall, the thing I want most from both teams is to bring back the concept that the Titans are more than just friends. More than just a team of superheroes. They're a family. The relationships between each of them, seeing what they do and how they interact with each other on their downtime, it was always more interesting than the actual superhero stuff. I want that feeling to come back. It started to in Titans before the League pulled the metaphorical plug and rebooted them. But that's something I really wanna see from both teams, more than anything.

  14. #149
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Really JL: Odyssey is a direction I would have liked for the Titans.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
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  15. #150
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    As for the Teen Titans, I do like SOME of the current roster. I'd keep Damian. I'd keep Djinn. MAYBE Crush too. But Billy, Emiko, and Wallace need to leave. In Billy and Wallace's case, preferably onto a bus that's driving off a cliff. Emiko...I don't dislike but she's never really felt like she belongs there. If she just HAD to be on a team, I'd probably put her on the Outsiders. Or maybe Birds of Prey. To replace those three, I'd definitely throw in Jon and Maya (who should have been the first two people Damian went to) and...I don't know, give the third slot to anyone. Aqualad maybe.
    No. Just... No.

    Stop trying to push Jon by piggybacking on Damian's popularity. The best thing which has happened to this character in relation to Damian was that he was aged up and put away from Robin, even if he still did manage to steal Maya away from Damian when he was still a kid in Superman.

    As for Wallace, leave him alone. I get that older fans don't like him, but him and Aqualad (Kaldur) works great with Damian. Even Roundhouse, while not great, is intriguing enough as it is. Honestly, the current roster is great, Glass just need to pick up the pace about the other and build them as more than arrows in Damian's quiver, which he has started.

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