So, if no Hickman, what should be done with the Titans?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Dead franchises don't sell fine, they don't have characters people like, and they don't expand into other media with TV shows. For a franchise and IP these are things they strive for, and Titans has it. Problem is there a different thoughts when it comes to the Titans. Parts of DC see Titans as a known IP with characters people like and want to expand on that into other media, other parts see the Titans as a threat and don't want it to actually succeed. Thats the problem. When Fox had the rights to X-Men they had this same problem, but now Marvel has the rights back and X-Men are seeing real support again.

And I think it needs to be reiterated how utterly and maddeningly ridiculous that is. I mean, even when Marvel was underselling the X-Men and FF, it was because of the issue with the film rights (which was bad enough). However, DC doesn't even have that excuse! WB HAS the film rights to the Titans. The only reason is that certain people at DC have this childish hatred for these characters and are using their positions of power to sabotage them.

And how many of those are actually new stories ?

I like the Titan tv shows but lest be honest : it's retreading the same ground as every Titan story since NTT. As for Young Justice, it is certainly large and bold, and steeped into Titan mythos. But it's often at the cost of older heroes. The Justice League is basically absent from the show and even former members such as Kaldur (Aquaman II) aren't exactly at the forefront nowadays.

I mean, Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame isn't really a "new" story either and neither are Swamp Thing and Doom Patrol. Just like any other adaptation, the Titans are steeped in familiar story elements and character dynamics. However, there's actually a lot about the show that wasn't in the original NTT run: Dick was never as violent in the comics as he is in th TV show; there was no love triangle between Dawn, Hank, and Dick; etc.

[OBrianTallent]

Titans is definitely not a dead franchise. That's the same thinking that Didio sees the characters in, which is obviously wrong just based on their presence on these boards (which is a very limited slice of the comics buying public.) However, as someone above said...you put mediocre talent on the book who gives mediocre product, you get people who wont buy the book. Comics cost too much to waste money waiting for it to get "good"...see Nightwing's current situation. Unfortunately, as long as Didio is in charge and doesn't see much value in the characters, there wont be much traction for them.
Likewise, there needs to be a reason for them to be together. The proposed direction of the last series was actually a good one, however, it did not deliver in any way shape or fashion. That plus having a rotation of artists or lackluster artists did not help the series either. Another tick against the series was planting Miss Martian as a tattletell for the JL and putting her at odds with Nightwing, not something fans of the characters or series want to see (plus she really should be on Young Justice and not the Titans.)
For me, I would consider one of two directions for the team...
1-Make them the people's heroes...celebrities. Everyone knows they are the second generation...the protege's of the Justice League, but the JL is out of touch, they handle the big things that happen. The Titans are the ones protecting your town from whatever costumed or powered idiot running around out there. That's sort of how the last series started....investigating source wall breaches and power spikes from people, but it derailed and went off into that whatever it was dimension. When Wonder Woman lands and defeats the bad guy, she flies off. Donna Troy helps put the flower pots back on the stoops while Raven heals and Nightwing coordinates building reconstruction. The scenario I have in my head is Donna, Dick, Raven and someone else shows up to stop whatever crackpot is causing chaos. When the news shows up, they comment on them being Titans. Later, Dick says to Donna "we aren't the Titans any more, that's a time passed." Donna replies "We will always be Titans because they need us. We aren't the Justice League up there...we are down here with them. We work well together because we have been through it all TOGETHER. We dont stop because we grew up, we continue because they need us to." It's cheesy and it's off the top of my head, but that would be the start. Maybe they set up in Detroit and operate out of there. In this, they can bring in new characters to mentor and train as well.
2-The exact opposite direction...they aren't the Justice League, so they aren't as noticed. They become almost a covert ops group going in and doing the things the JL can't because of the attention they attract. In this, they can bring in guest characters for whatever mission they are on and even introduce new characters as well.
Regardless, it requires a writer who has a clear vision of who the characters are, what they bring to the team and a direction for it all. I would love to see Cullen Bunn defect to DC and take a stab at the team. It also requires a top notch artist who is able to maintain at least a moderate monthly schedule. What's Kenneth Rocafort doing these days?

[Godlike13]

I don’t even think Didio sees the franchise as dead, but more he wants it to be dead.

[Ascended]

I don’t even think Didio sees the franchise as dead, but more he wants it to be dead.

Or at least firmly established as being under the League's heel. In Didio's DC, nothing can overshadow the Bat, and no team can overshadow (or come close to equaling) the League. Everyone has to know their role and their place in the world, with a hierarchy that must be firmly followed to the letter.

[Pohzee]

If no Hickman, then leave them be. I'd rather have them available when a creator is available and have the added buzz of bringing them back than trudge through another treadwater series by the likes of a Lobdell or Abnett.

I also firmly believe that the Titans must have a connection to Dick Grayson's generation of heroes, be it the Silver Age team (though Abnett did his best to dissuade me from that) or the New Teen Titans. I'm not saying that the Titan's franchise is Dick's franchise (though I think he is the tentpole) but even like the John's era where the NTT cast mentored younger heroes is fine.

But there MUST be a connection to the Fab 5/NTT gen. The Titans franchise shouldn't just be the dumping ground for the newest teen heroes and their respective Robin, especially with YJ around.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Titans is far from a dead franchise, but comics wise it has more of an uphill climb than most. The quality of the writing started to decline as soon as Perez left, and it hasn't had much of a resurgence ever since except for maybe Johns (and he combined it with YJ and created the problem that it was a franchise for younger teen heroes instead of the 20 somethings). Maybe some solid stuff by the likes of Grayson, but nothing major. They are in dire need of the Hickman-level shakeup that the X-Men are getting, but they get them even less frequently than the X-Men.

How many adaptations these days are of new stories?

It's a story focusing on younger heroes. Of course the League won't have much of a role. It's like complaining about the lack of Titans characters in a Justice League show or movie.

What works for adaptations doesn't work for the comics, as they are not always being viewed by the same set of people. The people watching the cartoon or the live action show are witnessing Dick separate from Batman, becoming Nightwing and establishing a romance with Starfire, going through "Trigon wants to possess Raven," Slade becoming their enemy and Terra betraying them, etc. and it's all new to them. We do not want to see any of that rehashed in the comics yet again.

It seems the YJ cartoon is doing its own version of the Terra story. if it works and is a success, we cannot then say the comics should just do that. Because Terra (or traitors within the Titans ranks in general) is beyond old news at this point. The comics don't need any more rehashed relationship drama, Trigon or traitors. And the Titans and YJ generation probably need to be permanently separated. The "Teen" was dropped from the Titans in the 80s, no more teens. Nightwing, Wally and Cyborg shouldn't have to "graduate" from the Titans any more than Cyclops, Wolverine and Storm need to graduate from the X-Men, but there is this perception that the Titans can only be teen heroes which isn't helping them at all

[Restingvoice]

Let's just start by actually treating the character right. Not a victim, not for angst, not for another hero's story. What's their story as an individual?

[Vordan]

Or at least firmly established as being under the League's heel. In Didio's DC, nothing can overshadow the Bat, and no team can overshadow (or come close to equaling) the League. Everyone has to know their role and their place in the world, with a hierarchy that must be firmly followed to the letter.

Didio who was the one who set up the family “hierarchies” wasn’t he? Used to be that if you were Batfamily you didn’t necessarily have to tie into what was going on in the main Batman books. That’s not really true anymore, now all the Batfamily books have to drop what they’re doing to match up to what is happening to Batman. It’s really hard to establish another team when it’s constantly reacting to what’s going on in other books.

What the Titans need is one “overseer” like Hickman who has total control of the direction and doesn’t have to play sidekick (heh) to the other stuff going on in the DCU.

[Aahz]

Didio who was the one who set up the family “hierarchies” wasn’t he? Used to be that if you were Batfamily you didn’t necessarily have to tie into what was going on in the main Batman books. That’s not really true anymore, now all the Batfamily books have to drop what they’re doing to match up to what is happening to Batman. It’s really hard to establish another team when it’s constantly reacting to what’s going on in other books.

I'm pretty sure that pre flashpoint Nightwing had crossover issues to almost every Batman event.
Ok now post flashpoints these cross overs had in some cases effects on his own series, but his series was the only where something like that happend, iirc with none of the other Batman series something like that happend.

[Badou]

Dead franchises don't sell fine, they don't have characters people like, and they don't expand into other media with TV shows. For a franchise and IP these are things they strive for, and Titans has it. Problem is there a different thoughts when it comes to the Titans. Parts of DC see Titans as a known IP with characters people like and want to expand on that into other media, other parts see the Titans as a threat and don't want it to actually succeed. Thats the problem. When Fox had the rights to X-Men they had this same problem, but now Marvel has the rights back and X-Men are seeing real support again.

It is dead creatively. I just don't see what can be done with it to cause some massive revival. So far no one here has come up with some brilliant idea other than asking DC to stop being mean to them, but it doesn't stop them from being a lesser JL team that will never have importance over the JL characters, not having a central theme, or knowing which generation to focus on. Just too many readers want different things I think from the franchise and there isn't enough story to do anything like what Hickman is doing with the X-Men. Just having them be the "cool young hero team" like you've mentioned before doesn't erase any of the massive problems that are embedded into the franchise.

Here is the issue. People want to compare the Titans to the X-Men, but it doesn't work. The X-Men are too broad and deep in their stories and characters, and even when Marvel was trying to undermine them in the comics when they didn't have their movie rights they still were able to produce good stories that had weight. There had always been one or two books that stand out. The Titans are more like the New Mutants book rather than the X-Men in total. Were biggest in the 80s, were the young next generation of heroes, but then trailed off after they grew up and kind of lost their purpose. Marvel can launch a New Mutants book and it will sell okay, but like the Titans I don't know what can be done to revitalize that title and are better off moving the characters into new teams.

[Sam]

It is dead creatively. I just don't see what can be done with it to cause some massive revival.

Probably why they aren't asking you to relaunch it.

[SiegePerilous02]

Probably why they aren't asking you to relaunch it.

To be fair, he's 100% right that none of us are really coming up with anything to get them out of the rut they are in. The most we can agree upon is that we hate it, but beyond that nobody can agree on what the team's mission statement is or which generation it should focus on, or if it should be all of them.

I think distancing it from the JL as much as possible is ideal. That means the only JL ties should be the Fab 5, all other generations of sidekicks need to GTFO from the Titans name. And even then, those five shouldn't be at the forefront alone. The majority of Titans should be unique and separate from the major "families," should provide something we are not getting elsewhere.

But then some would disagree and say the Titans should be teen heroes only, it doesn't matter if Dick is there or not as long as a Robin (any Robin) is there, and Dick's generation needs to move on the JL. And we're back to square one.

[Badou]

Probably why they aren't asking you to relaunch it.

Do you have some massive revival plan in mind then? So far I'm not seeing a lot of unique ideas here.

Me saying that the only way to revive the franchise into being anything close to a pillar of DC again would be if they rebooted all the way back to Dick as Robin is probably the closest, but DC is never going to do that.

[Godlike13]

No one here is in a position to get them out of the rut they are in. Its not our job to create for them nor can we truly sell an idea beyond a small paragraph.

[Sam]

To be fair, he's 100% right that none of us are really coming up with anything to get them out of the rut they are in. The most we can agree upon is that we hate it, but beyond that nobody can agree on what the team's mission statement is or which generation it should focus on, or if it should be all of them.

We're not professional writers who have been tasked by DC with reviving the franchise though. Just because we can't come up with anything, doesn't mean that the franchises are dead. There's no logic in that.

Do you have some massive revival plan in mind then? So far I'm not seeing a lot of unique ideas here.

What does unique ideas have to do with anything? An idea doesn't have to be unique to work. Stranger Things, for example, has been super successful. It's great, but nothing about it is particularly original. Any idea we come up with here doesn't mean anything. It's all about how it's implemented and whether people respond to it. And you not liking other people's ideas doesn't determine whether a franchise is dead. That's silly.