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  1. #46
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    We're not professional writers who have been tasked by DC with reviving the franchise though. Just because we can't come up with anything, doesn't mean that the franchises are dead. There's no logic in that.
    I wish I was.

    The idea that the team needs a mission statement is dumb. I only ever hear that crap when it's about the Titans. What's the Birds of Prey's mission statement or the JSA or the Avengers, etc.? The team's reason for being together doesn't really matter but if you have to pick something the Titans have one that is very unique to every other team. They're the sidekicks who grew up as heroes. What other team has that?

    On the idea that pitching is difficult I mostly attribute that to my signature from dear Dan. The apathy is strong in comics on the DC side right now. It's hard enough to care about comics anymore let alone fan-favorites. (To me anyway ) It's also hard because the franchise has been in a complete nosedive since 2011 with a disjointed history and terrible stories that were forgotten as they happened. I think the Titans needs at least 3 (preferably all) of the Fab Five Titans in the roster and focusing them on Silver Age related antics would give them a unique area to play in.

    I've pitched this idea several times but I love it and want to see it happen. Basically Marvel's Exiles meets Sliders meets Lost in Space. Originally I had this idea before they reintroduced Wally as a way to get him back. He would have to keep hoping dimensions to find his family and accidentally take Dick along for the ride. Just expand this to the rest of the Titans and it could be a very fun exploration book that would be great for guest writers/artists to experiment while expanding a simple but engaging narrative. I keep going with this kinda lost in the multiverse angle because 1) The multiverse is becoming a more mainstream idea which wouldn't be too hard for the general audience to understand. 2) I love road trip stories. 3) It can be canon without messing up the world around them. It's the best way to get Roy and Wally back after the horrible mangling they got.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  2. #47
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I don't even think that the Titans need a mission statement right now. Mission statements are good when the franchise is established and stable, but currently the Titans are neither established nor stable. The focus should be on writing stories with them functioning as characters and a team again. Doesn't matter if the stories are isolated/contradictory with whatever is going on in the mainline DC comics or if there's no grand overarching plot.
    I know and I agree, I talk about why I hate the idea of the importance of them in my post on the 4th page.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    It's actually funny that you're comparing the Titans to the X-Men since they were actually the X-Men's biggest competition at the peak of both franchises.
    And once upon a time the Legion/Titans/X-Men were the Big 3 teambooks. The contraction in comic book readership since the 90s have wiped out LoSH and Titans comic book franchises. X-Men has survived by virtue of their sheer size compared to those two. And currently that franchise is really in trouble and it remains in doubt if the decline can be reversed by Hickman or if he is just another footnote like Bendis in the death of the X-Men franchise. I think demographics more than any creative decision is to blame for the death of those two teams as comic book franchises. Frankly X-Men is going their way just that it's taken longer.

  4. #49
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    Unforturnately DC seem's to only care about Batman.so in order to get the Titans back on track.maybe they should call it Batman and the Titans.n the westcoast could have Batman/Titans L.A. then we can have a Batman's Dark Titans.yeah i'm being sarcastic but totally burnt out on the Bat.hopefully if the sometime in the near future DC will give the people who enjoy the Titans decent book to read.Wolfman and Perez took their time with Robin Kid Flash and Wonder Girl and gave us new blood in the form of Raven.Starfire and Cyborg.along w Beast Boy.they did once they can do it again all they need is a Writer and Artist who care's for these characters and not just someone who's looking for a paycheck.and as far as a mission.we don't need missions for everything that's what the Villians are for.the X Men are Mutants.and the Titans aren't so let's not compare the 2.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I honestly don't think anything can be done. I think the Titans is a dead franchise. Characters too old to be doing the same things they did before, but also they can never fully join or step over the Justice League. They are stuck. The books will still sell decent but it will never be a comic that will satisfy people. Too many readers what to see different things. Some want to read about Dick's generation, others want to read about Tim's generation, and some even want to read about Damian's new generation. Some want to see Dick's gen move on from the franchise and change focus to the younger heroes, and others want to see Dick's gen play babysitter and watch over the younger generation. Some want to see them work with the Justice League and others want to see them be completely independent. It is a mess.

    The X-Men have a consistent central theme to all their stories. It is about the Mutans and their struggle, but the Titans don't have a central theme. The closest they have to one is "young heroes teaming up and learning to be heroes together", but as you add more and more older Titans characters you lose that theme I feel. I think the only way for the franchise to have some massive revival is if DC rebooted completely and Dick is Robin again. I think the franchise is in too much of a mess and the story potential is too thin to have a massive revival as things are now.
    A dead franchise? It’s one of DC’s most well known properties. What was the central theme of the Teen Titans animated series or Young Justice? Young heroes teaming up to fight crime. It doesn’t need to have some deep motivation like X Men. There are always going to be teen heroes. These teens/kids want to team up with their peers to learn from each other and to just be around people with shared experiences. It doesn’t need to be that complicated. They’re never going to be the Justice League the same way Young Avengers or The Runaways will never be the Avengers, but there is still potential for a great story.

    I think a lot of people are just overthinking it. To me, the Justice League always seems like coworkers while the Titans seemed like family.

  6. #51
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    I also made a suggestion that they can have 1 book give it the name TITANS=NATIONAL GUARD.have them be like the cartoon Justice League Unlimited and the original Justice League of America book that had a 16 member team and the cast would rotate per mission.or even the name Team Titans could work again.1 book 3 different teams.Titans alpha/Titans omega/Titans vega which would be a team in space.and before and one say it's easier to write smaller teams let me be the 1st to say Legion of Super Heroes have had the largest cast in comic history and writers did the characters right.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    A dead franchise? It’s one of DC’s most well known properties. What was the central theme of the Teen Titans animated series or Young Justice? Young heroes teaming up to fight crime. It doesn’t need to have some deep motivation like X Men. There are always going to be teen heroes. These teens/kids want to team up with their peers to learn from each other and to just be around people with shared experiences. It doesn’t need to be that complicated. They’re never going to be the Justice League the same way Young Avengers or The Runaways will never be the Avengers, but there is still potential for a great story.

    I think a lot of people are just overthinking it. To me, the Justice League always seems like coworkers while the Titans seemed like family.
    The problem we get into is when those teen heroes grow up but are still stuck doing the same things they did when they were teens. This has been the main roadblock the franchise has faced. Do they continue to try and focus on these older adult Titans or do they keep focus on the young heroes?

    Back in the 80s when the Titans were at their peak Dick's generation didn't have all these other younger generations behind him. They were the youngest heroes so they weren't having to compete with the JL characters. Then in the 00s when Johns had his revival Tim's generation was the youngest and they were now the focus. Now there is a generation forming after Tim's and it is Damian's. So do they shift focus on these new young heroes and make them the centerpiece of the franchise going forward? But what do you do with Dick's generation now that they are 2 generations removed from being the youngest and are now adults the same as the JL characters?

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post

    On the idea that pitching is difficult I mostly attribute that to my signature from dear Dan. The apathy is strong in comics on the DC side right now. It's hard enough to care about comics anymore let alone fan-favorites. (To me anyway ) It's also hard because the franchise has been in a complete nosedive since 2011 with a disjointed history and terrible stories that were forgotten as they happened. I think the Titans needs at least 3 (preferably all) of the Fab Five Titans in the roster and focusing them on Silver Age related antics would give them a unique area to play in.
    I think none of the Fab 5 should be Titans at this point. Nothing screams "Justice League for Noobs" like having Batman-lite, Green-Arrow-lite, Wonder Woman-lite, Aquaman-lite and Flash-lite on a team. What great new and incredible stories could be said about those characters which couldn't be told with their mentors ? Comics are pricey, why should I throw away my money for a bad rendition of F.R.I.E.N.D.S but with super-heroes ?

  9. #54
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I think a lot of people are just overthinking it. To me, the Justice League always seems like coworkers while the Titans seemed like family.
    This is all that's needed to be said.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  10. #55
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I think none of the Fab 5 should be Titans at this point. Nothing screams "Justice League for Noobs" like having Batman-lite, Green-Arrow-lite, Wonder Woman-lite, Aquaman-lite and Flash-lite on a team. What great new and incredible stories could be said about those characters which couldn't be told with their mentors ? Comics are pricey, why should I throw away my money for a bad rendition of F.R.I.E.N.D.S but with super-heroes ?
    You don't want the founding members of a team to be on it because they have similar powers to their mentors who aren't a part of the team? Makes sense.

    If characters are just powers and costume designs to you I have no idea how to help you there. I don't see these characters as lesser and you already think they are. If you aren't a fan why do you care? Also how is a hypothetical story bad? Good or bad ideas don't mean anything until they have been done, the execution is what matters.

    Good storytelling has the characters reacting to the situation naturally. Great stories don't come from the powers, they come from the characters. Batman solving a mystery is different to how Wally would do it or Dick or Roy. Don't know how you got Friends from silver age antics but okay.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I think none of the Fab 5 should be Titans at this point. Nothing screams "Justice League for Noobs" like having Batman-lite, Green-Arrow-lite, Wonder Woman-lite, Aquaman-lite and Flash-lite on a team. What great new and incredible stories could be said about those characters which couldn't be told with their mentors ? Comics are pricey, why should I throw away my money for a bad rendition of F.R.I.E.N.D.S but with super-heroes ?
    Because none of them are their mentors.dick grayson ain't bruce. Wally ain't barry(except for when they write barry as wally-lite).And justice league are colleagues at best,except for couple of relationships. These are kids that grew up together,that stood by each other. Some of whom have even taken the mantle from their predecessor. Their relationships are more personal. It's not just a meta human parallel army like the justice league. And stories can't grounded because guess what, relationships between jl members is only professional most of the time. They get together when there is trouble and they disband . Especially in this continuity. Tell me what is hal jordan's relation with clark or black canary's with diana. Are they friends?.as if, bruce wayne can be written to be straight, nice or humorous.can diana be Written to escape her larger than life sister's shadow ? No.
    DC just needs to allow the titans to outshine Justice league from time to time. Because there isn't a reason that shouldn't happen. Justice league as franchise is not being pushed for movie or something,so That the titan can't be pushed.Stop pushing league to be their nannies when they have out grown them to be great heroes themselves. As matter of fact make them mentors to the new generations like the jon, damian,wallace..etc. I sair mentors not babysitters.
    If we are talking about failed franchises justice league is as much a failed franchise. Maybe even more so with the box office collection for their movie. I mean, we are not going to get justice league movie anytime soon. There is more hope for other teams DC has like the justice society, titans and legion.. Etc.
    Also,what happened to cyborg as a character and a franchise. Has he been in anything memorable or great without the so called "failed franchise" that is titans and that history .if you ask me titans have wayyy more potential sometimes than the silverage justice league crew.

  12. #57
    Spectacular Member Dark-Jacket's Avatar
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    The Titans are not a dead franchise, far from it. There is not such thing as a dead franchise anymore. Guardians of the Galaxy was a "dead franchise" so were Doctor Strange, Challengers of the Unknown, Dial H for heroes or even... the X-men back in the 70's.

    I've read many interesting things here and I think (if we don't count editorial) that the generation issues and the lack of direction has been a real problem.

    They did go for an okay approach back in the days with the dual series Young Justice/Titans and should explore it with better writers.

    1/ Titans main book :
    JLA are colleagues for world-sized problems, Titans is a family more focused on country-wide AND personnal issues. This book should extend membership to all of the second generations heroes.
    Batgirl, Supergirl, Powergirl... shouldn't be excluded. Personnal problems should be extended in the books. Something the League has not time to do. And I'm not talking about romances. Batgirl's struggle with her PTSD, Wally's mourning, Roy addiction issues and so on. JLA are gods, they are icons more relatable to the DC everyman.

    2/ Young Justice :
    You get here the third/fourth generation heroes, to me I think Damian, Jon Kent and the West Twins should be in their own space so far to build them up as their own franchise.
    This group is about young heroes carefree of adults problem and protected by their olders.
    I really want the angst of killing young heroes to go... seriously. xD

    3/ Team Titans :
    An anthology book about all generations of heroes teaming-up two or more to give us exciting more personnal stories and help define characters outside their main series.

    Just my two cents ^^

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I think a lot of people are just overthinking it. To me, the Justice League always seems like coworkers while the Titans seemed like family.
    This is the most obvious branding, the problem is, current DC is not interested in family. When Tomasi wanted to make a Superman issue about the family, editorial came back with "where are the villains". It's not impossible since Tomasi manages to make a story about the family while fighting villains, but you have to fullfill that criterion.
    DC's way of thinking when it comes to branding from what I've seen is who has what abilities does what versus who.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The problem we get into is when those teen heroes grow up but are still stuck doing the same things they did when they were teens. This has been the main roadblock the franchise has faced. Do they continue to try and focus on these older adult Titans or do they keep focus on the young heroes?

    Back in the 80s when the Titans were at their peak Dick's generation didn't have all these other younger generations behind him. They were the youngest heroes so they weren't having to compete with the JL characters. Then in the 00s when Johns had his revival Tim's generation was the youngest and they were now the focus. Now there is a generation forming after Tim's and it is Damian's. So do they shift focus on these new young heroes and make them the centerpiece of the franchise going forward? But what do you do with Dick's generation now that they are 2 generations removed from being the youngest and are now adults the same as the JL characters?
    and here's another problem. DC treats Titans the same way they treat Robin and Batgirl. Whoever holds the famous branding is the one getting promoted. First Dick's Titans, then Tim's Titans and now Damian's Titans. Currently, Tim escapes that by the return of Young Justice by a star writer, but let's just say Bendis didn't come, Damian's Titans is still gonna be the main focus, especially with Dick and his Titans gone.

    We need that differentiation, not for our benefit, because we fans know the difference between those characters, but to pass editorial and to sell it to people who don't know
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 07-27-2019 at 01:32 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    The problem we get into is when those teen heroes grow up but are still stuck doing the same things they did when they were teens. This has been the main roadblock the franchise has faced. Do they continue to try and focus on these older adult Titans or do they keep focus on the young heroes?

    Back in the 80s when the Titans were at their peak Dick's generation didn't have all these other younger generations behind him. They were the youngest heroes so they weren't having to compete with the JL characters. Then in the 00s when Johns had his revival Tim's generation was the youngest and they were now the focus. Now there is a generation forming after Tim's and it is Damian's. So do they shift focus on these new young heroes and make them the centerpiece of the franchise going forward? But what do you do with Dick's generation now that they are 2 generations removed from being the youngest and are now adults the same as the JL characters?
    Somehow I doubt that Damian's generation(outside of himself, KF and Emiko)are going to stick around after this run ends. With the exception of KF,(and maybe Crush) every member of that team is unlikable and unsympathetic. If any generation is going to be a centerpiece of the franchise going forward, it won't be this one.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Somehow I doubt that Damian's generation(outside of himself, KF and Emiko)are going to stick around after this run ends. With the exception of KF,(and maybe Crush) every member of that team is unlikable and unsympathetic. If any generation is going to be a centerpiece of the franchise going forward, it won't be this one.
    The thing with Kid Flash is, that you have also a direct competion with Impulse, who seems to be around the same age and is simply a more fun an light-hearted character (and doesn't have the ballast of new-Wally vs old-Wally thing).

    But that each generation is build around the side kick characters fro the big franchises, has been the case with the previous incarnations too.

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