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  1. #91
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    The problem is, creators have justified removing several supporting things from Donna over the years or disregarding how reboots will impact, and now there's nothing left of her. She's just a hollow shell. If we dismiss something as uninteresting and then get rid of it, that justifies getting rid of other stuff and eventually you get this result. WW herself has had this problem too.

    Restoring continuity for the Titans would benefit them immensely. Regardless of what one feels about Donna's extended family, she needs to be a character who has actually had a life, warts and all. Terry's the biggest wart of them all, but it's something, and better to have had it in her history even if he's dead (I'm sure most of us don't mind him being dead) than not existing at all. Because that's the Titans franchise in a nutshell now, her in particular: Donna was more interesting and had more going on when she was married to this weird loser than she does as the non-entity she is now. That is sad beyond words.

  2. #92
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    The Fab 5 Teen Titans should totally be back in continuity, along with the vast swabs of Titans history.

    Having Donna Troy just be some lady defeats a lot of the fun of the character having grown up as Wonder Girl with Robin and Aqualad.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Clandestine stuff works depending on who's on the current roster.A lot of Titans members have either done sketchy stuff or have ties to really sketchy people. I actually think that a clandestine Titans team would work and should exist.
    Like a I said the clandestine stuff sticks never on the long run.
    - Outsiders start usually doing more normal Superhero stuff after a few arcs
    - Justice League Task Force was retooled into a trainee team pretty fast
    - most people don't even seem to remember that Birds of prey started as clandastine team
    - even with Suicide Squad the authors for the most part don't really care about having them so stuff subtly

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Like a I said the clandestine stuff sticks never on the long run.
    - Outsiders start usually doing more normal Superhero stuff after a few arcs
    - Justice League Task Force was retooled into a trainee team pretty fast
    - most people don't even seem to remember that Birds of prey started as clandastine team
    - even with Suicide Squad the authors for the most part don't really care about having them so stuff subtly
    Clandestine works for a bit if you want to rehabilitate sketchy characters. Once the characters are rehabilitated, you move them on to regular superhero stuff.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Clandestine works for a bit if you want to rehabilitate sketchy characters. Once the characters are rehabilitated, you move them on to regular superhero stuff.
    I think also a team of normal heros can do stiff like that for a few story arc, but it just nothing that works as a long term direction for a regular superhero team (Suicide Squad is kind of a different thing here).

  6. #96
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    I don't like what Hickman has done to the X'Men because it didn't solve one of their biggest problems which is that there's just waay too many of them. But I wish them success. From my point of view Hickman's X-Men has religious overtones. The Krokoa flower in X- Men seem to the equivalent of the transubstantiation/Consubstantion of the body of Christ. In the last supper Jesus break bread and said eat this bread for this is my body. And drink this wine this is my blood. And by doing these things a sacrament/covenant was formed. The krokoa flower seems to be similar. The X-Men have formed a covenant with the flower.

    If DC did something similar with the Titans I would think that they would separate the teenage sidekicks of major Superheroes in one group under a sacrament which in this instance would be defined as something mysterious and have a sacred significant. The sidekicks know that being mentored by Batman, Superman, Cyborg etc..is significant but they struggle to grasp the concept in their everyday life.
    Last edited by Wakeneuron; 07-28-2019 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quite the opposite in fact - it looks like he resurrected everyone who was dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    One thing they could do is stop creating all new characters for the team and use some of their fan favorites that are in limbo. I really couldn’t care less about Jinn and new Bouncing Boy or whatever his name is.
    Djinn and Roundhouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I had an idea for Nightwing that would work for the Titans too. Superhero relations are bad after HiC, so Nightwing is approached to do a superhero reality show that follows them around. The comic would be like we were watching an episode. Instead of thought boxes we'd have confessionals and things like that.
    That sounds exactly like the recent West Coast Avengers series.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakeneuron View Post
    I don't like what Hickman has done to the X'Men because it didn't solve one of their biggest problems which is that there's just waay too many of them. But I wish them success. From my point of view Hickman's X-Men has religious overtones. The Krokoa flower in X- Men seem to the equivalent of the transubstantiation/Consubstantion of the body of Christ. In the last supper Jesus break bread and said eat this bread for this is my body. And drink this wine this is my blood. And by doing these things a sacrament/covenant was formed. The krokoa flower seems to be similar. The X-Men have formed a covenant with the flower.

    If DC did something similar with the Titans I would think that they would separate the teenage sidekicks of major Superheroes in one group under a sacrament which in this instance would be defined as something mysterious and have a sacred significant. The sidekicks know that being mentored by Batman, Superman, Cyborg etc..is significant but they struggle to grasp the concept in their everyday life.
    I felt like what Hickman did was absolutely necessary. Marvel basically culled most of the X Men recently for shock value and Hickman brought everyone back. There are too many X Men but killing off characters for shock value never sits right with me, why kill or derail a character when you can just not use them? It saves future writers(who might be interested in using a particular character)the trouble of having to clean up a mess caused by derailment or a complicated resurrection plot.

  9. #99
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    But then some would disagree and say the Titans should be teen heroes only, it doesn't matter if Dick is there or not as long as a Robin (any Robin) is there, and Dick's generation needs to move on the JL. And we're back to square one.
    Which is part of the problem that has been brought up. What *are* the Titans? The adults from the 90's or the current teenagers? Does the Robin on the team have to be Dick, or can it be *any* Robin?

    DC has tried to have it both ways for decades, and all it seems to have done is split the fanbase on what the team is supposed to be. Which means a lot of fans may skip a series if it's not what they envision the Titans as being. Even a "Titans" and "Teen Titans" double up means DC is paying twice as much to appease the fans, and making less.

    Personally I think it's time to put the brand on the shelf for a while. Give it a few years, find a really good pitch, hone the hell out of it, and finally do something that is new and unique but a worthy (and hopefully equal) successor to Wolfman. I have a few ideas of course (because my dumb ass always does) but, I mean, who cares?
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  10. #100
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    Have they tried though. Cause I can’t remember the last time the didn’t just bring in formulaic creators for it to do formulaic series. I’m mean can we really call Lobdell and Booth and Abnett and Booth trying? Im sure they would love to shelf it, but again I bring up the tale of two DC’s when I comes to the Titans. The comic division can’t exactly justify shelving the brand when it has the most it ever has going for it in other media.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-28-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I felt like what Hickman did was absolutely necessary. Marvel basically culled most of the X Men recently for shock value and Hickman brought everyone back. There are too many X Men but killing off characters for shock value never sits right with me, why kill or derail a character when you can just not use them? It saves future writers(who might be interested in using a particular character)the trouble of having to clean up a mess caused by derailment or a complicated resurrection plot.
    Hickman I think also needs to jettison the whole mutant lead state angle. It's been rehashed too many times (Utopia, Genosha, Asteroid M, Providence). Hopefully he can settle on a new status quo for the franchise.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Which is part of the problem that has been brought up. What *are* the Titans? The adults from the 90's or the current teenagers? Does the Robin on the team have to be Dick, or can it be *any* Robin?

    DC has tried to have it both ways for decades, and all it seems to have done is split the fanbase on what the team is supposed to be. Which means a lot of fans may skip a series if it's not what they envision the Titans as being. Even a "Titans" and "Teen Titans" double up means DC is paying twice as much to appease the fans, and making less.

    Personally I think it's time to put the brand on the shelf for a while. Give it a few years, find a really good pitch, hone the hell out of it, and finally do something that is new and unique but a worthy (and hopefully equal) successor to Wolfman. I have a few ideas of course (because my dumb ass always does) but, I mean, who cares?
    I'm in the camp that firmly thinks the "Titans" name should belong to one set of characters, and that's Dick's generation. The "Teen" has been dropped since the 80s, and even in-story they would frequently just refer to themselves as just "Titans" and not always "Teen Titans." There is no reason for them to graduate from anything, the name can be used for a cast of young adult characters.

    Slapping "Teen" back onto the title with the YJ crowd for some shallow synergy with the cartoon resulted in some short term success, but reinforced the wrong notion that it's only a team for teenager, or adults who are only there to train the teens. And now the Fab 5 and those of their age group look pathetic for keeping the name when they had already gone through the process of making the name grow up with them, and now they have nowhere to go. But yes, other fans would think they need to move on have Tim or Damian's generation bear the name, or even have all the generations have it. And personally, I can't think of anything more boring than a team comprised mostly of current and former Robins, Wonder Girls and Kid Flashes. The goal should be for the Titans to mostly be comprised of members (beyond the original 5) we cannot see in other, bigger properties. Keep Tim's crowd separate as YJ. They need to stop having it both ways and just power on through.

    I do agree that giving it a rest is better than putting out bland products, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Have they tried though. Cause I can’t remember the last time the didn’t just bring in formulaic creators for it to do formulaic series. I’m mean can we really call Lobdell and Booth and Abnett and Booth trying? Im sure they would love to shelf it, but again I bring up the tale of two DC’s when I comes to the Titans. The comic division can’t exactly justify shelving the brand when it has the most it ever has going for it in other media.
    I have to agree with this a bit. The reunions featuring Dick, Donna, Wally, Garth, Roy, Vic, Kory, Gar and Raven were not bad plans and they generated interest. So clearly people want to see those characters together again. But they fizzled out quickly because of the talent involved. Like the one before Abnett was Judd Winick, who slaughtered a bunch of red shirts and had Starfire get attacked by a giant worm while she was naked as his opening salvo. No wonder it crashed and burned. Geoff Johns, Mark Waid or Grant Morrison on a Fab 5 + NTT reunion would have killed it because they could balance the nostalgia with new ideas effectively. Similarly, Hickman's setting up a story where tons of faces across the various X-eras can show up, but he's still putting Xavier, Magneto, Scott, Jean, Logan, Storm and the other big names at the forefront. His big new direction still keeps the core cast. I think a Titans relaunch should either have all 9 of those characters as the core or as many of them as possible, because that's who people want to see.

    DC just shouldn't think they can put just anybody on the title and think it will hold peoples' interests. Either an already big name or a fresh up and coming talent is needed, not workmanlike mind.

  13. #103
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    I think the O.G. Titans should move on and leave the Titans name to the kids, so there's simply a "Teen Titans" title, not both a "Teen Titans" and "Titans" title muddying up the waters.

    But the characters who were the O.G. Titans should definitely still do rad stuff. I think that's always the rub - nobody wants to upgrade anybody except Cyborg to full-time JLA roster status but nobody wants to reduce them down to Teen Titan babysitting, either (which has befuddled Raven and Beast Boy, and Starfire, a lot over the last few years). The key then is to fall back upon their unique individual histories to tell you where that story needs to go. Wally for instance has become equal to his mentor, actually surpasses him in skill, and has all this muddled timeline problems. Dick became the ultimate substitute ... then the ultimate spy. Tempest is a mage. Arsenal is a lancer.

    They're uniquely equipped to handle like ... DCU adventure-conspiracies (fringe-Atlantis or fringe-Amazon or ... demonic) and they bring their problems with them in the form of like ... well, Trigon mostly. Blackfire. You could make Psimon obsessed with Lilith so the Fearsome Five are ever-present. But then come up with some new stuff.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm in the camp that firmly thinks the "Titans" name should belong to one set of characters, and that's Dick's generation. The "Teen" has been dropped since the 80s, and even in-story they would frequently just refer to themselves as just "Titans" and not always "Teen Titans." There is no reason for them to graduate from anything, the name can be used for a cast of young adult characters.

    Slapping "Teen" back onto the title with the YJ crowd for some shallow synergy with the cartoon resulted in some short term success, but reinforced the wrong notion that it's only a team for teenager, or adults who are only there to train the teens. And now the Fab 5 and those of their age group look pathetic for keeping the name when they had already gone through the process of making the name grow up with them, and now they have nowhere to go. But yes, other fans would think they need to move on have Tim or Damian's generation bear the name, or even have all the generations have it. And personally, I can't think of anything more boring than a team comprised mostly of current and former Robins, Wonder Girls and Kid Flashes. The goal should be for the Titans to mostly be comprised of members (beyond the original 5) we cannot see in other, bigger properties. Keep Tim's crowd separate as YJ. They need to stop having it both ways and just power on through.

    I do agree that giving it a rest is better than putting out bland products, but...



    I have to agree with this a bit. The reunions featuring Dick, Donna, Wally, Garth, Roy, Vic, Kory, Gar and Raven were not bad plans and they generated interest. So clearly people want to see those characters together again. But they fizzled out quickly because of the talent involved. Like the one before Abnett was Judd Winick, who slaughtered a bunch of red shirts and had Starfire get attacked by a giant worm while she was naked as his opening salvo. No wonder it crashed and burned. Geoff Johns, Mark Waid or Grant Morrison on a Fab 5 + NTT reunion would have killed it because they could balance the nostalgia with new ideas effectively. Similarly, Hickman's setting up a story where tons of faces across the various X-eras can show up, but he's still putting Xavier, Magneto, Scott, Jean, Logan, Storm and the other big names at the forefront. His big new direction still keeps the core cast. I think a Titans relaunch should either have all 9 of those characters as the core or as many of them as possible, because that's who people want to see.

    DC just shouldn't think they can put just anybody on the title and think it will hold peoples' interests. Either an already big name or a fresh up and coming talent is needed, not workmanlike mind.
    Titans should be relaunched as multiple books, each featuring a different cast of characters. Put everyone into one book and we'll get the same problem as the current YJ cartoon.

  15. #105
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Have they tried though. Cause I canít remember the last time the didnít just bring in formulaic creators for it to do formulaic series. Iím mean can we really call Lobdell and Booth and Abnett and Booth trying? Im sure they would love to shelf it, but again I bring up the tale of two DCís when I comes to the Titans. The comic division canít exactly justify shelving the brand when it has the most it ever has going for it in other media.
    Its a good point, but I dont know if it actually matters much in this case. We know that larger media success rarely ever trickles down to comic sales. We also know that the Titans have a strong following and major name recognition, and have for three decades. Lack of quality, consistency, and direction are what keeps the franchise at mid-level or lower, not a lack of interest.

    So while it would be ideal to capitalize on the larger media success, I'm not sure if this is the kind of opportunity DC *has* to jump on. Sales on the Titans probably wont be impacted too much by the larger media stuff either way (they have far bigger problems than whether their book lines up with a tv show). And for the people discovering the Titans through the show, there's a ton of older trades out there so DC is still getting their cut (without having to invest in the IP and big name creators to move it).
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