So, if no Hickman, what should be done with the Titans?

[Godlike13]

Its a good point, but I dont know if it actually matters much in this case. We know that larger media success rarely ever trickles down to comic sales. We also know that the Titans have a strong following and major name recognition, and have for three decades. Lack of quality, consistency, and direction are what keeps the franchise at mid-level or lower, not a lack of interest.

So while it would be ideal to capitalize on the larger media success, I'm not sure if this is the kind of opportunity DC *has* to jump on. Sales on the Titans probably wont be impacted too much by the larger media stuff either way (they have far bigger problems than whether their book lines up with a tv show). And for the people discovering the Titans through the show, there's a ton of older trades out there so DC is still getting their cut (without having to invest in the IP and big name creators to move it).

And yet here comes a Harley Quinn and The BoP comic. It’s more about does one tell their bosses hey, I know we’re making successful TV shows and a cartoons with this brand, but we want to shelf it. And not because its sales are terrible. I don’t know how that flys.

[Ascended]

And yet here comes a Harley Quinn and The BoP comic. It’s more about does one tell their bosses hey, I know we’re making successful TV shows and a cartoons with this brand, but we want to shelf it. And not because it sales terrible. I don’t know how that flys.

I think the new BoP is a slightly different matter, because Harley is a solid sales source and should give the BoP (who have struggled for a while now) a boost in the direct market. Yeah, it's syncing up with the movie but Harls sells comics. Larger media adaptations rarely move the needle. I'm not saying DC never chases synergy, just that it rarely helps the direct market. We can look at the sales data ourselves and see that, outside of an occasional exception like Ant-Man, the best we get is a tiny blip for floppies and a solid, but short-lived, spike for trades.

As for "how that flies" I dont know. I'm not sitting in DC's offices with all of their sales and market data and corporate culture and clueless WB bosses and all the rest of it. And the Titans might not be what they were but still manage mid-level sales most of the time, which might be a solid incentive for a synergy push hoping to reach the top ranks again. But honestly? Assuming the data they have matches the data we look at, I wouldn't worry much about the larger media stuff. It seems to be a non-factor 99% of the time. So sure, maybe you push the Titans because of the streaming service and *maybe* you get something out of it, but odds are you're not. And that's simple accounting DC's bosses will probably understand. I'd be more inclined to push a new release of classic Titans material honestly. Trades are where we see the biggest increases and it'll cost a lot less than bringing in high-end talent to turn the monthly around.

The Titans deserve some real thought and investment and effort. But not because of the show, and some time on the shelf might do them some good, regardless of the larger media stuff. Or it might not. Like I said, I don't work at DC, I have no idea how they process their data or how much market research they do or anything.

[Godlike13]

Your missing the point, how do they justify shelving the property when other departments are making the brand work and sales aren’t that bad. Thats tantamount to them saying we can’t do our job, not because it’s impossible, and not because people don’t want it, but because we just can’t. They might be able to justify not doing anymore then they already are, but they can’t do nothing.

[skyvolt2000]

And yet here comes a Harley Quinn and The BoP comic. It’s more about does one tell their bosses hey, I know we’re making successful TV shows and a cartoons with this brand, but we want to shelf it. And not because it sales terrible. I don’t know how that flys.

Thank you.
I tired of that excuse because it's seems to always targets POC, women and LGBTQ folks.

Deathstroke & Booster guest star on shows and get books-it's KUDOS to DC for doing.
Cyborg, John Stewart, Static and others-it's Dc is not a charity and how dare they try it.

Your missing the point, how do they justify shelving the property when other departments are making the brand work and sales aren’t that bad. Thats tantamount to them saying we can’t do our job, not because it’s impossible, and not because people don’t want it, but because we just can’t. They might be able to justify not doing anymore then they already are, but they can’t do nothing.

Now what Ascended point out is true-you can't have a successful franchise if you offer poor writing and crappy editing and behind the scenes nonsense that has plagued Titans and MANY of the guys like Static, John Stewart, Tim, Bart & others.

Your point is they need to do something.
Ascended is saying if you do it-it better be GOOD.

True on both cases.

[Ascended]

Your missing the point, how do they justify shelving the property when other departments are making the brand work and sales aren’t that bad.

Im not missing the point, I just disagree. Because these are completely different markets. What works in one doesn't necessarily work in the other. The fact that the show is doing well means almost nothing at all as far as comics go. There's no equivalency here. We might as well ask why there's no Captain Crunch movie because the cereal sells well (I'm being slightly hyperbolic here but you get my meaning). If larger media made a real difference then Iron Man would have been a Top 5 seller for the past decade. And the Titans show's been out for what, a year or so? Doesn't seem to have made a difference in sales so continuing the title just for that reason seems foolhardy. The fact that DC and Marvel keep chasing synergy? I dont know why, because the sales data we have tells me that it's largely a fool's errand, outside of that small blip in trade sales. That seems enough reason to reprint material, not dictate the direction of the current books.

The fact that the sales aren't terrible is a better reason to keep the books going than anything happening in larger media. Those bigger adaptations are essentially worthless as far as the publishing goes. But DC has cancelled books that sell better than Titans too, so I'm not sure if "its a mid-level seller most of the time" is enough to justify keeping it around either. Not when, with some TLC, it could be so much more.

I'm not saying DC should definitely put the book/s on hold. They are fairly solid mid-level titles after all (usually). I dont have the data I'd need to even begin to make a real decision there. But I can see how a break could be beneficial in the long term. A year or two off and the result is (if done right) a Top 10 title? That'll balance the accounting real damn quick.

Skyvolt is right, all I'm saying is that if you're going to try and make the Titans matter again, if you're going to do something (and something does need to be done!) then you take your time, you do it right, and you don't rush it. I'd rather see the Titans take a year or two off and come back strong, than see them continue wallowing in the crap-fest that has been the IP for the last few decades.

[Badou]

Your missing the point, how do they justify shelving the property when other departments are making the brand work and sales aren’t that bad. Thats tantamount to them saying we can’t do our job, not because it’s impossible, and not because people don’t want it, but because we just can’t. They might be able to justify not doing anymore then they already are, but they can’t do nothing.

I get what you are saying, but they haven't really shelved the property. They are releasing a Teen Titans book now with Robin and new young heroes in the same vein as the older teams. Robin, a female space alien who is the tank, a female magic user, an archer, and an odd skin color oddball character. They are even fighting Deathstroke and crossing over with his book which is a title DC has promoted a lot, and it sold about the same as the adult Titans book. Then there is the new Young Justice book DC has released and promoted a lot. Also Raven has her young adult novel that is being released too with plans for more. So they are doing things with the property and their young heroes, but just not with the adult Titans characters in a way to jump on the live action TV series interest, which probably isn't really a priority for DC.

But a big reason for that is because they have prioritized the Justice League and Batman books over the adult Titans book. Remember they basically folded the adult Titans team into the JL Headquarters. That is where they are working now and have been shoved into the background of the JL book because Snyder wanted all the heroes under one big roof. Starfire, and Cyborg if you still want to include him as a Titan, are off in space starring in a JL book dealing with a lot of the things Snyder has been setting up in his JL book. Then Nightwing was screwed over because they wanted to have the King's story in the main Batman book have more "wight". So they removed Dick after being shot in the head so his own book could tie into the events of the Batman book. How DC structured their comics made putting out a book that mirrored the live action Titans TV series not really an option given what else they were doing maybe. Plus after HiC it probably looked bad to have a Titans book spin its wheels doing nothing while all these big events were going on with Titans characters.

[Godlike13]

You guys are still missing my point, obviously it’s better that if your going to do something then they should take the time and put in the work to do it right. Its not even about capitalizing on the TV show (even though they seemingly try to with pretty much every other property that even farts in other media). My point is how doing nothing right now would make those managing the comic department look professionally. How can they do nothing when other departments are doing successful things with the brand, introducing the brand into different mediums, all while the brand still has an audience within the comic market.
Which is why they haven’t shelved the brand, even though it’s clearly not a brand those running the comic department for DC want to really develop or do much with anymore. If they could shelf it, they probably would. Especially with YJ and the new Wonder line covering their teen characters. But as soon as someone asks why they are shelving it, what are they suppose to say. Well we don’t like it, or we can’t or don’t want to work on it so we’re just gonna wait till someone maybe someday comes along and does that job for us. There’s no way that goes over. They can’t just shelf a property cause they either don’t want to, or are just too incompetent, to do their job with it. The Teen Titans/Titans brand might not be DC’s biggest property, but it’s still not that small. It’s their job to continue to develop and do things with these brands and properties. So they can’t reasonably just do nothing and hope someday maybe someone will eventually come along and do it for them. And so we get these mediocre, half assed, Teen Titans and Titans books, with mediocre create teams, that are easily fed to other brands that they value more.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I think the O.G. Titans should move on and leave the Titans name to the kids, so there's simply a "Teen Titans" title, not both a "Teen Titans" and "Titans" title muddying up the waters.

Why should they abandon the name? Why not have the upcoming generations find their own monikers to go by? It used to be that Dick, Donna, and Wally's generation were the Titans, while Tim, Bart, and Cassie's generation were Young Justice. Why not just have Damian's generation find a name of their own?

[Aahz]

So while it would be ideal to capitalize on the larger media success, I'm not sure if this is the kind of opportunity DC *has* to jump on. Sales on the Titans probably wont be impacted too much by the larger media stuff either way (they have far bigger problems than whether their book lines up with a tv show). And for the people discovering the Titans through the show, there's a ton of older trades out there so DC is still getting their cut (without having to invest in the IP and big name creators to move it).

I'm also not sure if "Titans" really counts as larger media success it airs (at least in the US) on a streaming service that's aimed pretty much exclusively on DC fans.
That doesn't seem to me like that will bring in much new readers.
I mean the idea in putting Titans on DCU as their first new show, was very likely to get Titan Fans into this service, and not the other way around.

And Teen Titans Go, which has probably a bigger reach, has it's own comic series.

[Korath]

You guys are still missing my point, obviously it’s better that if your going to do something then they should take the time and put in the work to do it right. Its not even about capitalizing on the TV show. My point is how doing nothing right now would make those managing the comic department look professionally. How can they do nothing when other departments are doing things with the brand, introducing the brand into different mediums, all while the brand still has an audience within the comic market.

But those other departments are just using what came long before in comics. They are repackaging it, sure. But they aren't creating something new with the adult Titans. It's just a retelling of older stories. And that's the problem, the adult Titans don't really have a point in today's market and branding.

You said it yourself, they have Young Justice and the Wonder Line imprint for teen heroes, plus the Teen Titans (which I really like as a book). But where does it leaves the adult Titans ? Do you put them on a team with the younger generations ? It'll be either used to show how the younger character are immature, not enough skilled, etc. which will diminish them, or it'll serve to stifle the adults, because "they are in a team with brats!" mentality (which made a huge disservice to Percy's Teen Titans in early Rebirth, compounded by the way everyone was utterly outshone by Damian instead of having a compelling story each).

And if you don't and put them with the mission to deal with the lesser threats... How do you take them out of the shadow of the League ? If all they are fighting is B to C-level villains, you can have very interesting stories about how they are perceived, sure, but it'll be a lot harder to sell them as impressive and mighty heroes. It may not be the point, of course, and if fans and editorial are okay with it, it's not even a problem. But they won't beat the "True Super-Heroes" of the Justice League that way, in term of sales and impact on the DCU (even if, done right, they could have pivotal influence in the perception of heroes and vigilantes).

In any case the problems with the Titans franchise are simple for me : the stagnation of generations (there is only so much new character introduced in the time-frame of the DCU until Batman and Superman and co. not being way older than they are usually starts to really not make sense) which put the kids against the iconic status of their mentors; and the awkward position of the adult Titans, who can't surpass their predecessors nor become what their successors are -less competent or experienced, or seasoned, what have you- only make this problem almost impossible to solve.

[Godlike13]

Well now we’re talking about something else, but its not out sell the JL or bust. And whats more it doesn’t seem to matter how the Terrifics, Outsiders, RHatOs, BoP, the various JL B squad books, etc. fit in between the JL and the teen teams. Even with the teens they have YJ and the Teen Titans. The adult Titans not having a point in todays comic market or brand is a reflection on the comic departments negligence to find or create one. And here’s the issue with that, it’s not like they have actually even tried.

[Aahz]

I think when they would finally stop to retell the same old stories over and over again, the Titans could have easily spot similar the one of the JSA pre flashpoint.

They wouldn't operate on the same level as the JL but only slightly below, and would be among the first ones the JL calls in if they need reinforcements and treated as respected allies.

[manwhohaseverything]

Why should the titans be below jl level? That is exactly the problem with titans franchise. Stop treating them like backup or bteam because they legitimately can do better with them. Dick is as competent as bruce wayne and is much more put together than bruce could ever hope for. Wally has surpassed barry allen. Donna was made to kill diana..roy is pretty impressive himself without his mentor.
They shouldn't be treated kids at the beckoning call of their superior mentors. when that hasn't been the case for a while.

[Dark-Jacket]

I don't think there are too many titans, nor there are too many X-men.
You can't have too many characters in a comic book. Morrison once managed a 14 membres justice league (without counting the guests). Hickman managed a HUGE cast of Avengers and it worked. You just need not to put a writer which can't manage it (and I'm not saying it's a bad thing. There are great writer who would nailed solo series but couldn't write a team book for their lives, and vice versa.)

You need to think about which characters should have a focus and which one don't. Nightwing doesn't need a focus on a titans book, he has his own series.
You could have 100+ characters, they don't need to appear all each time. JLA/Titans included ALL the titans and it was a great comics to read even for a beginner (I didn't know s*** about the titans before reading this on and felt it compelling).

You could have a core team and guests here and there.

Why should the titans be below jl level? That is exactly the problem with titans franchise. Stop treating them like backup or bteam because they legitimately can do better with them. Dick is as competent as bruce wayne and is much more put together than bruce could ever hope for. Wally has surpassed barry allen. Donna was made to kill diana..roy is pretty impressive himself without his mentor.
They shouldn't be treated kids at the beckoning call of their superior mentors. when that hasn't been the case for a while.

Exactly. Dick has been proved to be an amazing Batman. Wally wad one of the greatest Flash ever. Roy accomplished more than Green Arrow did at one point. They need to be an alternative.
Tim's Generation Young Justice and Damian's Gen claim a new name or just be the outsiders which would fit Damian's personnality.

[Aahz]

Why should the titans be below jl level?

Because the JL deal nowadays frequently with Cosmic or Multiverse level events, and if you have several of the events go on at the same time it becomes kind of ridiculous.

Putting them on the JSA level seems to me the better solution. On this level they would basically deal threads that would be big enough for the Justice League. And it would definitely be a massive step up from where they currently are.

And imo the JSA was above various of the spin off JL-teams (who had anyway only very limited life times), and not much below the prime JL.