So, if no Hickman, what should be done with the Titans?

[Ascended]

My point is how doing nothing right now would make those managing the comic department look professionally. How can they do nothing when other departments are doing successful things with the brand, introducing the brand into different mediums, all while the brand still has an audience within the comic market.

Now I think you're the one missing the point. It doesn't matter what the larger media stuff does, because those are totally different markets with different audiences and demographics. Their success or failure means nothing as far as publishing goes, and anyone in business knows better than to base expectations off of what a totally different format and product are doing. You're building a false equivalency. This is not going to make DC look bad professionally.

What makes them look bad professionally is that the company has let one of their (former) strongest IP's flounder in crap for thirty years. DC looks bad for what the publishing has done, not for what other people in different companies do. I mean, the worst conclusion WB is going to come to is that comic books are a dead/dying market.....which people have believed since before I was born. Seriously, this is not a thing. At most all DC would have to do is point out everything they've done since the 90's; high end creators, no-name creators, classic rosters, original rosters, a mix of the two, different directions with almost every relaunch......the Titans have been in and out of publication since Wolfman left and have never reclaimed their lofty place in the ranks. DC doesn't have to justify a thing to WB, all they have to do is let the market speak for them.

And right now, when it comes to the adult Titans title, they have already been shelved. Have been for months (maybe even a year now? I forget when their last issue hit), and I dunno about anyone else but I haven't heard so much as a rumor of them returning.

The only reason to keep the adult Titans book alive is because it is, typically, a mid-level seller. And being a mid-level seller isn't much protection; tons and tons of IP's can generate similar sales figures.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Because the JL deal nowadays frequently with Cosmic or Multiverse level events, and if you have several of the events go on at the same time it becomes kind of ridiculous.

Not really. The Titans handled cosmic-level threats at a time when the League was also handling similar threats and that's when they were at their most successful. One of the most famous Titans villains is Trigon, after all, an extradimensional demon, who has conquered countless realms.

[Ascended]

I'm also not sure if "Titans" really counts as larger media success it airs (at least in the US) on a streaming service that's aimed pretty much exclusively on DC fans.
That doesn't seem to me like that will bring in much new readers.
I mean the idea in putting Titans on DCU as their first new show, was very likely to get Titan Fans into this service, and not the other way around.

And Teen Titans Go, which has probably a bigger reach, has it's own comic series.

I have no idea how successful the show is, nor how WB is measuring that success or even where the line of "success" is drawn. But I hear it was one of the highest watched streaming shows in season 1 and getting a second season, so I'm assuming it can be qualified as a success.

And yes, the show was never likely to bring new fans into the comics. That's not how all these big media shows and movies have ended up working. Which is part of my point. The show was never likely to make a difference in comic sales, so it's therefore something to ignore because it's not helping or hindering. The comics will have to find their own success, not piggyback on the effort of other people who have nothing to do with the publishing.

As for what the publishing can do......I'm not sure. They've tried a lot of different things over the years and the closest they've gotten to the glory days of Wolfman (to my limited knowledge) was Johns' run (and that was a dozen years ago now). I think at this point it might not matter very much what DC does. The Titans have been a questionable, inconsistent brand for so damn long I think fans have now assumed the book isn't worth looking at unless something really special catches their eye. Brand recognition might be working against the Titans at this point (that's just a guess of course, I dont have market data obviously). And there's not much DC can do to fix that perception over the short term, unless they stumble upon just the right alchemical mix of creators, roster, and direction. This is probably a long-term problem and it'll take time and consistent effort to undo all the damage DC has done to the Titans' reputation.....unless they get really damn lucky of course.

[Aahz]

I have no idea how successful the show is, nor how WB is measuring that success or even where the line of "success" is drawn. But I hear it was one of the highest watched streaming shows in season 1 and getting a second season, so I'm assuming it can be qualified as a success.

But the big question is, how many Subscribers has DCU actually.
In comparison to other streaming services it seems pretty niche, and seems to have very limited content (I'm not from the US so I don't first hand experience with that service).

[Godlike13]

Now I think you're the one missing the point. It doesn't matter what the larger media stuff does, because those are totally different markets with different audiences and demographics. Their success or failure means nothing as far as publishing goes, and anyone in business knows better than to base expectations off of what a totally different format and product are doing. You're building a false equivalency. This is not going to make DC look bad professionally.

Imagine if DCs comic division stopped publishing Superman and put it on a shelf not because their audience no longer wanted it, not because they can’t sell it, and not because it was a dead or inactive property for DC as a whole, but simply because those responsible for generating new ideas with Superman in the comic division didn’t want to or lacked the ability.
Now the TT/Titans brand isn’t Superman, not even close, but it’s still not so small and inactive for DC as whole that I think Dido, Lee, Harras and such can comfortably get away with doing nothing and putting the brand away on a shelf just because they don’t want to do their jobs with it. Professionally I can’t imagine that goes over for them. They might not have to do more then they are, they might not have to do a TT and Titans book (even though their mediocre, half assed, Titans book sold not too bad in this market. Especially giving it’s content), but I still don’t think they can’t just do nothing with a still very active and seemingly growing brand for DC, even though they probably would like nothing more. Cause how exactly do they explain that. It’s not like they can even go hey look at the our market, it’s at the bottom of the charts. Which is why we keep getting these mediocre, low effort, don’t really want to put real support into TT and Titan series from them. I get that creatively maybe it would be better to shelf it then do what they have with it, but my point is I don’t think they can. Not completely, not when it’s still so active and alive for DC (which is my point with bringing up the brands other media activity). As it probably wouldn’t look very good for them professionally. It’s like when Didio wanted to put Dick on a shelf, and he was just about to do it, until it came down that no that’s not gonna fly.

[Vordan]

When was the last time DC even gave the Titans franchise a big push with a big creator? Feels like Johns was the last time. TPTB at DC seem to overwhelmingly view the Titans as B-Listers, and put the same kind of talent on them.

[Dark-Jacket]

Not really. The Titans handled cosmic-level threats at a time when the League was also handling similar threats and that's when they were at their most successful. One of the most famous Titans villains is Trigon, after all, an extradimensional demon, who has conquered countless realms.

They also had deathstroke the terminator which is on par, if not better, than prometheus who single handedily defeated the JLA.

[Aahz]

When was the last time DC even gave the Titans franchise a big push with a big creator? Feels like Johns was the last time. don't think that Jones was allready a big creator when he wrote Teen Titans.

I think the last time they tried to give it big push was probably Titans Hunt.

[Arsenal]

Titans Hunt combined with DC: Rebirth #1 was a good set up at having the Titans dive deep into the Rebirth investigation. It didn’t even have to necessarily go anywhere but with all the “hints” DC used to drop it throughout its various titles it could’ve been a fun, wild ride nonetheless.

[Badou]

Titans Hunt and the following Titans book weren't allowed to do anything with Wally which is what people wanted most and I guess highlights the main issue. The Titans aren't looked at as a "driving force" in the DCU. Not in the way a JL book, Superman book, Batman book, and so on drive the big or main stories at DC. An Leviathan type of event is never going to spin out of the Titans book and then take over the DCU line. Maybe not since the 80s or when Johns had his revival by focusing on Tim's generation have the teams really been a big force at DC, and in both cases it was the youngest generation that received the most focus in the brand. So asking DC to suddenly give the adults Titans book a big push or make them a driving force in their universe is something that they have never really done. It would be like asking for the Nightwing book to be the main driving force in the Batman franchise, but we all know that will never happen.

[Ascended]

Now the TT/Titans brand isn’t Superman, not even close, but it’s still not so small and inactive for DC as whole that I think Dido, Lee, Harras and such can comfortably get away with doing nothing and putting the brand away on a shelf just because they don’t want to do their jobs with it.

I imagine the Titans now pull about the same level of "importance" as the JSA. Maybe not quite that low on the totem pole, but still far from the top. However, I think you must have missed the parts where I said DC could potentially get away with putting them on the shelf *in order to take the time to properly re-invest in the IP.* That's not ignoring them or sweeping them under the carpet because DC is lazy and uncaring (though they are indeed those things), it's taking a minute to consider what to do with the franchise so it can, once again, become something that matters and reclaim some of its lost glory, and putting the work in to ensure that the Titans' return is actually worthy of the IP's name and history.

It would be far from the first time a IP was taken off the shelf while the publisher works behind the scenes to figure out what went wrong and course-correct. And I think it could end up being for the best. A few years off the shelf makes fans nostalgic, but a few more years of horrible quality serves only to drive fans away and continue to taint the brand's image. And if, during this hypothetical hiatus, DC is working to put together a really kick-ass Titans relaunch (which would be the point and purpose behind a hiatus in my mind).....wouldn't that be for the best? Is anyone going to miss the team, as they're currently handled? Because I really don't think anyone is clamoring for more Abnett style Titans. If it takes another break for the Titans to get fixed up, I'll happily wait rather than see these characters I love run through the mud even more.

[Bruce Wayne]

When was the last time DC even gave the Titans franchise a big push with a big creator? Feels like Johns was the last time.

Nah DC pushed hard with McKeever after Johns left with Didio personally editing the book. Except of course their entire gambit on the Countdown related writers failed miserably.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Who would buy a Titans book written by Lemire and Venditti with art by Jim Cheung?

[manwhohaseverything]

I imagine the Titans now pull about the same level of "importance" as the JSA. Maybe not quite that low on the totem pole, but still far from the top. However, I think you must have missed the parts where I said DC could potentially get away with putting them on the shelf *in order to take the time to properly re-invest in the IP.* That's not ignoring them or sweeping them under the carpet because DC is lazy and uncaring (though they are indeed those things), it's taking a minute to consider what to do with the franchise so it can, once again, become something that matters and reclaim some of its lost glory, and putting the work in to ensure that the Titans' return is actually worthy of the IP's name and history.

It would be far from the first time a IP was taken off the shelf while the publisher works behind the scenes to figure out what went wrong and course-correct. And I think it could end up being for the best. A few years off the shelf makes fans nostalgic, but a few more years of horrible quality serves only to drive fans away and continue to taint the brand's image. And if, during this hypothetical hiatus, DC is working to put together a really kick-ass Titans relaunch (which would be the point and purpose behind a hiatus in my mind).....wouldn't that be for the best? Is anyone going to miss the team, as they're currently handled? Because I really don't think anyone is clamoring for more Abnett style Titans. If it takes another break for the Titans to get fixed up, I'll happily wait rather than see these characters I love run through the mud even more.

Importance is the problem. Frankly, speaking their totem pole sucks. JLA getting more importance than either titans or jsa is overrated. They had a chance with rebirth. They could have used titans with the big doomsday clock mystery. They blew it. Taking them off the shelf might further reduce their importance, i fear. Look at the legion,3 reboots and no stability in site.
I feel, all the editorial needs to do is treat titans as group of young heroes competent enough to take on JLA if they want to. Not sidekicks or teens. Give them a mission statement that affects the DCU as a whole. Give them back their close as family friendship dynamics and individual/team history.Heck! Have them be in conflict with Jl from time to time. Give them back cyborg. You can say that he became a jlaer, later. But, make it seem like if push came to shove cyborg will be a titan.have them be mentors to younger generations. That is it.

[Powertool]

Who would buy a Titans book written by Lemire and Venditti with art by Jim Cheung?

At the risk of reading a a way too long first arc that leads nowhere like with his Justice League United book? Pass.

Also, let's be realistic, within the first six issues (first TPB) we'd likely have:

- two issues of Jim Cheung art;
- three issues where J.C. draws from three to six pages of the comic while the rest is done by a fill-in artist;
- a final issue with the title page done by J.C. while the rest is done by the fill-in artist, who's then (maybe) announced as the new series regular.

As far as artists go, he's near the bottom of the list if we order it by the 'best fit for an ongoing series' parameter.