View Poll Results: JJ + Superman?

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  • I like it!

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  • I don't like it!

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  1. #1
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    Default Would JJ Abrams make a good director for a Superman reboot?

    It's a rumour, admittedly from a unreliable site but given that he's going to work as WB it's a possibility.

    Pros:

    -Can make well received box office hits that are generally well liked by critics and audiences with ease. After the disaster of having two Superman movies that were too scary for children and weren't well liked by audiences, Superman as a character needs an easy win like a JJ Abrams movie.

    -His characters are generally likable (The Force Awakens' best feature is its characters and his Star Trek movies do a decent job of it) and are also very pro-active, which wasn't the case for Superman in Returns and BvS.

    -He can make nostalgia movies really well. This is what Singer tried to do in Returns but Abrams is a master of it.

    Cons:

    We don't need a Superman movie that harks back to the Reeves movies. Just because the dark, anti-nostalgia version of Superman movie didn't work doesn't mean we need another 180 on the whole franchise.

    His movies seem very unambitious. He plays it overly safe and seems fine with making consistent 7/10 movies.

    His Superman Flyby script was terrible, though admittedly that was years ago.

    I'm... undecided on this.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    One thing to remember about the Flyby script: That was made at a time when WB was explictily looking to make something completely different from the Reeves movies. That’s how we almost got crazy scripts like Supes vs a giant spider or Nick Cage Superman. If Abrams was to make a script now he would probably make something more traditional. Honestly I just want Supes to fight Brainiac or Metallo or anyone besides Lex/Zod and if Abrams can give me that then bring him on.

  3. #3
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    Not a rumour is that WB and Bad Robot have entered into a partnership. So J.J. Abrams will be producing content for WarnerMedia. Whether he would actually direct anything is an open question. It seems like a good guess that he might direct something and it's also a good guess that Bad Robot would produce something with a DC property. Beyond that is where the wild rumours and speculation come in.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Not a rumour is that WB and Bad Robot have entered into a partnership. So J.J. Abrams will be producing content for WarnerMedia. Whether he would actually direct anything is an open question. It seems like a good guess that he might direct something and it's also a good guess that Bad Robot would produce something with a DC property. Beyond that is where the wild rumours and speculation come in.
    There's a rumour that Abrams is directing both Superman and Green Lantern movies... which seems like BS to me but it's out there. He is a comic book fan and loves making big blockbusters based on nostalgic bits from his childhood so he seems like an obvious fit.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    His movies seem very unambitious. He plays it overly safe and seems fine with making consistent 7/10 movies.
    I think if any superhero would suffer from an overly safe story, it's Superman. He's considered the most generic superhero by so many people that a generic story isn't going to attract anyone new. On the other hand, not playing it safe also tends to lead to bad audience reception, thus getting Superman right seems to be a tiny, narrow window. The analogy I like to use is titrating solutions in a chem lab: not enough drops, not enough drops, not enough drops, not enough drops, perfect titration, oops your solution is purple and now you have to start over, not enough drops...

    I vote no on JJ. We need to pair a guy who lives and breathes Superman with a quality screenwriter who can translate those ideas to a good film. I hate to say it, but I sort of picture JJ as a guy who'd do Superman if given the opportunity, but he'd rather be doing something like Batman.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Obviously getting someone who loves the character would be great but who exactly fits the bill for that? Most directors would rather be making a Batman movie, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t make a good Superman movie. Take James Wan, he wanted Batman, but once he got Aquaman he worked with Johns to get Arthur his first movie that went on to make over $1 billion. That’s what Superman needs.

    I mean Singer loves Superman but Returns was still a weak film, so love of the character doesn’t necessarily translate into success. Burton didn’t care about Batman at all but his movies were still successes. It’s all about directorial ability and having at least one person on the crew in a position of power who knows and loves the character. And frankly Superman DOES need a straightforward superhero movie, not another stupid ass “reinvention” like Snyder. He doesn’t need to be edged up, or compared to “modern myth” (a surefire sign that the director hasn’t bothered to do any research into the character). He needs a straightforward movie where he fights the bad guy, saves the day, and doesn’t act like he’s severely depressed.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Obviously getting someone who loves the character would be great but who exactly fits the bill for that? Most directors would rather be making a Batman movie, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t make a good Superman movie. Take James Wan, he wanted Batman, but once he got Aquaman he worked with Johns to get Arthur his first movie that went on to make over $1 billion. That’s what Superman needs.

    I mean Singer loves Superman but Returns was still a weak film, so love of the character doesn’t necessarily translate into success. Burton didn’t care about Batman at all but his movies were still successes. It’s all about directorial ability and having at least one person on the crew in a position of power who knows and loves the character. And frankly Superman DOES need a straightforward superhero movie, not another stupid ass “reinvention” like Snyder. He doesn’t need to be edged up, or compared to “modern myth” (a surefire sign that the director hasn’t bothered to do any research into the character). He needs a straightforward movie where he fights the bad guy, saves the day, and doesn’t act like he’s severely depressed.
    Allow me to explain. "Lives and breathes Superman" is my shorthand for someone who works within the confines of Superman-ness and has given great thought to the character, and is prepared to present aspects of the character that normies wouldn't. For instance, when I was watching the BluRay for All-Star Superman, I listened to the Grant Morrison/Bruce Timm commentary track, and when they got to the part in Stryker's Island, the commentary focused on how Superman would surreptitiously use his powers, while "disguised" as Clark Kent, to resolve the issue at hand. Bruce Timm kind of said something about he never thought of that conceit. That signaled to me that Morrison (who we all know digs Superman) really understands the character and can dig into ideas on how to do interesting things with the character, whereas Timm doesn't really have a feel for the character (and this after years of working on Superman-related animation).

    Also, "rather be doing something like Batman" is my shorthand means you're not really invested in the character. It doesn't mean you can't do a good job if you're fully invested, but chances are you won't be as great as you could be. One example would be Geoff Johns' last Superman run.

    I just want 1) a Superman movie instead of this purgatory we're in 2) a movie that's good* and 3) that will be financially successful so they can make more.

    *My shorthand for "I like it."

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    His Star Trek sucked. His Star Wars sucked. So, no. The whole "Krypton still survived" thing will have to be dropped. Abrams is way overrated in general. If he did, I'd probably watch it but I wouldn't come into it with high expectations.
    Now listen to me, Clark! This great strength of yours--you've got to hide it from people or they'll be scared of you!

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    JJ is the king of remakes and he knows it. He vowed to stop riffing pre-exisiting moves for his movies, but that was last year before Rise of Skywalker finished filming. Recent comments suggest ROS will skew close to ROTJ. The same way TFA and TLJ riffed on the A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.


    On the flip side, JJ doesn't do sequels without a lot of prodding and payment. I'm sure, most people are aware of JJ's "mystery boxes" that he likes to create for his properties. See Alias, Lost, Cloverfield, Star Trek, The Force Awakens, Super 8, Mission Impossible 3. But admittedly, JJ has no idea where his mysteries even go most of the time. So, after he does his "greatest hits" remake of someone else's movie. He leaves and the actual resolution if left up to the new directors and producers. See the current Star Wars movies of a prime example of how that could go wrong.

    I bring up JJ not doing sequels (Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Wars Rise of Skywalker being his only sequel projects), to demonstrate JJ is only interested in telling "greatest hits"/checklist movies. After which he washes his hands of the project and moves on. Note the 4 year gap between Star Trek 2009 and Star Trek Into Darkness. Paramount waited on JJ to direct the film but he dithered on committing. It should be noted both ST09 and STID riff Wrath of Khan A LOT. With STID skewing closer to a remake than ST09. That's 2 remakes in a row. Now that Trek is on indefinite hiatus for it's movies, but with the prospect of Tarantino directing the next one. Take note of this exchange between JJ and Tarantino recently.

    " And I told JJ, ‘I don’t understand this, I don’t like it’ and he said, ‘Ignore it! Nobody likes it! I don’t understand it! Do whatever you want! If you want to do it the exact way it happened in the [original series], it can.'"
    JJ rebooted Trek, made two remakes in a row, abandoned Trek and Paramount for Star Wars, made a remake there and left it up to Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson and Colin Treverrow (Jurassic World's director). The Last Jedi caused a schism in the audience, fanbase and media. Colin Trevorrow was fired from IX by Kennedy. As were Lord and Miller from Solo. Solo bombed and Bob Iger asked for JJ back. Now we await Rise of Skywalker. Which will likely be a ROTJ inspired remake to close out the sequel trilogy.


    So, that's what you can expect from JJ. A safe, checklist movie that harkens back to a pre-existing movie (complete with line for line dialogue exchanges and shot for shot scene recreations), mystery boxes and is guaranteed to be a box office and critical success. After that though, expect JJ to wash his hands of the IP and leave future movies and plotting to someone else.


    All this without ever talking about whether JJ likes Supes or GL. Recall with Star Trek, he wasn't a fan. And relied on his writers and co-producers Damon Lindeof (Prometheus - the Alien remake, Watchmen HBO), Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman (Transformers 1+2, The Amazing Spider-Man 1-2) for details. Anyone familiar with the above names, is likely aware of the issues surrounding their projects. Roberto Orci famously told fans to "f*ck off" after the online criticism of STID being another Wrath of Khan remake.


    So, it's going to be a big pass for me on JJ and Superman.
    Last edited by Doctor Know; 07-26-2019 at 10:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Allow me to explain. "Lives and breathes Superman" is my shorthand for someone who works within the confines of Superman-ness and has given great thought to the character, and is prepared to present aspects of the character that normies wouldn't. For instance, when I was watching the BluRay for All-Star Superman, I listened to the Grant Morrison/Bruce Timm commentary track, and when they got to the part in Stryker's Island, the commentary focused on how Superman would surreptitiously use his powers, while "disguised" as Clark Kent, to resolve the issue at hand. Bruce Timm kind of said something about he never thought of that conceit. That signaled to me that Morrison (who we all know digs Superman) really understands the character and can dig into ideas on how to do interesting things with the character, whereas Timm doesn't really have a feel for the character (and this after years of working on Superman-related animation).

    Also, "rather be doing something like Batman" is my shorthand means you're not really invested in the character. It doesn't mean you can't do a good job if you're fully invested, but chances are you won't be as great as you could be. One example would be Geoff Johns' last Superman run.

    I just want 1) a Superman movie instead of this purgatory we're in 2) a movie that's good* and 3) that will be financially successful so they can make more.

    *My shorthand for "I like it."
    Timm is the ******* worse. He has no imagination whatsoever when it comes to Supes, and I really wish he would recuse himself from Superman projects. Dude is frankly better off just making his Batman projects where he can self-insert to his hearts content.

    Again I would love to get a Superman fanatic in the director’s seat and writing the script, but who is an option? At this point unless Morrison or Waid are writing the script I don’t think that’s a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    JJ is the king of remakes and he knows it. He vowed to stop riffing pre-exisiting moves for his movies, but that was last year before Rise of Skywalker finished filming. Recent comments suggest ROS will skew close to ROTJ. The same way TFA and TLJ riffed on the A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.


    On the flip side, JJ doesn't do sequels without a lot of prodding and payment. I'm sure, most people are aware of JJ's "mystery boxes" that he likes to create for his properties. See Alias, Lost, Cloverfield, Star Trek, The Force Awakens, Super 8, Mission Impossible 3. But admittedly, JJ has no idea where his mysteries even go most of the time. So, after he does his "greatest hits" remake of someone else's movie. He leaves and the actual resolution if left up to the new directors and producers. See the current Star Wars movies of a prime example of how that could go wrong.

    I bring up JJ not doing sequels (Star Trek Into Darkness and Star Wars Rise of Skywalker being his only sequel projects), to demonstrate JJ is only interested in telling "greatest hits"/checklist movies. After which he washes his hands of the project and moves on. Note the 4 year gap between Star Trek 2009 and Star Trek Into Darkness. Paramount waited on JJ to direct the film but he dithered on committing. It should be noted both ST09 and STID riff Wrath of Khan A LOT. With STID skewing closer to a remake than ST09. That's 2 remakes in a row. Now that Trek is on indefinite hiatus for it's movies, but with the prospect of Tarantino directing the next one. Take note of this exchange between JJ and Tarantino recently.



    JJ rebooted Trek, made two remakes in a row, abandoned Trek and Paramount for Star Wars, made a remake there and left it up to Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson and Colin Treverrow (Jurassic World's director). The Last Jedi caused a schism in the audience, fanbase and media. Colin Trevorrow was fired from IX by Kennedy. As were Lord and Miller from Solo. Solo bombed and Bob Iger asked for JJ back. Now we await Rise of Skywalker. Which will likely be a ROTJ inspired remake to close out the sequel trilogy.


    So, that's what you can expect from JJ. A safe, checklist movie that harkens back to a pre-existing movie (complete with line for line dialogue exchanges and shot for shot scene recreations), mystery boxes and is guaranteed to be a box office and critical success. After that though, expect JJ to wash his hands of the IP and leave future movies and plotting to someone else.


    All this without ever talking about whether JJ likes Supes or GL. Recall with Star Trek, he wasn't a fan. And relied on his writers and co-producers Damon Lindeof (Prometheus - the Alien remake, Watchmen HBO), Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman (Transformers 1+2, The Amazing Spider-Man 1-2) for details. Anyone familiar with the above names, is likely aware of the issues surrounding their projects. Roberto Orci famously told fans to "f*ck off" after the online criticism of STID being another Wrath of Khan remake.


    So, it's going to be a big pass for me on JJ and Superman.
    Good write-up. You have a lot of good points on Abrams failings. Maybe it’s a sign of how desperate I am that I’d still take Abrams in a heartbeat lol. Anything to wash away the Snyder interpretation of the character.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    It would depend on what his ideas are. Assuming the Flyby stuff is all gone. I mean, other than that if he's not married to Donner tropes I'm down. If he didn't want to adapt Superdad I'd be down. And so on and so forth. It would really all depend. The situation can't get any worse than it already is so at this point there's very little that would make me balk and unwilling to give the slightest of chances.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I voted yes. The guy knows how to do pretty looking movies and crowd pleasers that general audiences want to watch. But he needs an original story and a new villain for Superman to fight (Brainiac!). Give us classic Superman back but with a modern touch. Basically a mix of Donner and Snyder/Nolan.

    Let's face it, Superman needs a safer movie this time around. No more experimenting and overall depressing movies showing us how hard is to be Superman. Have some fun with the material. Show how awesome is to have Superman powers. Show the responsibility but also the joyful parts (like the Clark/Lois romance, Superman helping and interacting with regular people and the people loving him in return). We want kids to want to be Superman again.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 07-26-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    So long as he wasn't doing the script alone - and that the writer or co-writer would be able to steer things properly for Superman and play into Abrams' strengths - yeah, I think he'd be a perfectly good choice.
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  14. #14
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    I have two seemingly different but fully compatible answers:

    "I don't like it," and "yes, he's absolutely a good pick".

    He tends to make movies that are a certain breed of dumb fun, but he does it very very well, and Superman desperately needs the public to think he's fun and cool, much more than he needs some auteur to come in with a bold new direction or highly specific but incredibly interesting take. We've had that. I liked that. It wasn't delightful, but I liked it. But Abrams is great at "delightful," so yeah, I absolutely think he's a good choice.
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  15. #15
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    If he sticks to trying to do a real Superman movie, rather than the Flyby stuff-- Unquestionably yes.

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