View Poll Results: JJ + Superman?

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  • I like it!

    16 28.07%
  • I don't like it!

    23 40.35%
  • I'm undecided!

    18 31.58%
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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I'd be fine with Abrams if he can deliver a big hit, which is mainly what Superman needs.
    Not sure if I want him sticking around after the first one though, just hand it off to someone else. Someone not Rian Johnson.

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Was it in this forum where I read JJ has never stuck a landing?

    If you get JJ to work on Superman, give him a collaborator, and make sure the two actually, you know, collaborate.
    He's never ended a story, is what I think that means. Which is true, he never has - but he also doesn't need to in this case. Which brings me to the next thing I want to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'd be fine with Abrams if he can deliver a big hit, which is mainly what Superman needs.
    Not sure if I want him sticking around after the first one though, just hand it off to someone else. Someone not Rian Johnson.
    Agreed. I want JJ to do one big crowd-pleasing Superman movie, and then give the property to someone else. He's someone capable of making a delightful movie, not necessarily of headlining a long-running movie franchise.

    And Rian Johnson, as much as I loved The Last Jedi (it was brilliant, don't @ me) would do another one of those "auteur" takes on Superman I think we've seen enough of. The last thing Superman needs right now is to be subverted. The character's been subverted more prominently and more often than he's been Superman in the public mindset for the last twenty years.
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  3. #63
    BANNED Hulkverine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    It's one of those weird things but you know you're doing it right when the criticisms people have with the acting line up with the criticisms of the actual role. Superman is super straight man. Cavill is very clean and upright in the role once he's put in costume and his Clark has a nice, soft nag. I give him credit for how he handled the brooding which isn't something he put in place, but you can tell his did earnestly evoke the likes of For Tomorrow. I think if they let him breathe a bit with charisma like we saw in UNCLE and generally provided a better plot some people would turn around.
    Brooding Superman is not Superman. Cavil is simply bland. Itís not the character, itís him and itís Snyderís inept directing. Itís the god awful writing. Itís Amy Adams putting me to sleep any time she says two words.

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkverine View Post
    Brooding Superman is not Superman. Cavil is simply bland. It’s not the character, it’s him and it’s Snyder’s inept directing. It’s the god awful writing. It’s Amy Adams putting me to sleep any time she says two words.
    Cavill was just doing what he was given. I don't think anyone would NOT be bland with such material. He was fine with what little he as given in JL, the writing of that movie in general was godawful and the worst thing about him was his fake lips.

  5. #65
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Personally I've never followed the argument Cavill fans have that he's an example of perfect casting that got burned by bad direction. This is just my opinion. But while Ryan Reynolds got screwed hard by the direction of X-men Origins Wolverine, he still managed to kill it in the limited screen time he had. And he was basically just a cameo in that movie. Cavill was in 3 movies. And I still doubt he has the charisma to carry another Superman movie.

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Personally I've never followed the argument Cavill fans have that he's an example of perfect casting that got burned by bad direction. This is just my opinion. But while Ryan Reynolds got screwed hard by the direction of X-men Origins Wolverine, he still managed to kill it in the limited screen time he had. And he was basically just a cameo in that movie. Cavill was in 3 movies. And I still doubt he has the charisma to carry another Superman movie.
    Reynold is the stronger actor so he is more capable of salvaging a shitty situation, but still not enough to get people to like it if the direction is bad.

    Cavill isn't really any different than Gadot and Mamora in terms of range. I think a more charismatic Superman is within his limited range, it's just that those two had the benefit of getting better directors who played to their strengths and took advantage of their supporting cast to bounce off of them. Cavill was just unlucky and didn't have that.

  7. #67
    Mighty Member Lokimaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkverine View Post
    Brooding Superman is not Superman. Cavil is simply bland. Itís not the character, itís him and itís Snyderís inept directing. Itís the god awful writing. Itís Amy Adams putting me to sleep any time she says two words.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but do or do not Aquaman, Shazam and Wonder Woman interact with peers over the course of their respective movies? Superman in the Snyder movies is mostly shown dealing with things on his own. Also the Plots in MoS and BvS involve him directly not some all powerful macguffin. There is no Quest to go on as shown in Aquaman or Wonder Woman since he himself is the Quest. Superman hasn't really had time to be Superman yet cause most of the time he's reacting instead of acting to a problem. I think this stems from his introduction to mankind as a Potential Threat rather then as a Savior which I think was intended. Oh he was still introduced to Lois as a Savior which I think was Intentional as well to give contrast with the public's perception. These movies are about Perception after all. Him saving Lois was a private intimate thing now instead of a public spectical. I honestly think Snyder was trying to put as much distance between his movie and Donners as Donners was from the Adventures of Superman TV show. People say Snyder pretentious but I don't see it that way. My read is MoS is 9/11, BvS was Iraq, SS was Getmo and US torture and clandestine operations, WW was about the nature and why of War and JL was about the War on Terror itself and what it's done to us as a Nation. If comic books can be allegories to cover heavy topics why can't comicbook movies do the same?

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Personally I've never followed the argument Cavill fans have that he's an example of perfect casting that got burned by bad direction. This is just my opinion. But while Ryan Reynolds got screwed hard by the direction of X-men Origins Wolverine, he still managed to kill it in the limited screen time he had. And he was basically just a cameo in that movie. Cavill was in 3 movies. And I still doubt he has the charisma to carry another Superman movie.
    It’s true that Cavill hasn’t really demonstrated much in the way of charisma. However as a counter I submit Natalie Portman in the Star Wars Prequels. She and Hayden had no chemistry and Lucas’s bad script and directing made her look like a poor actor. Obviously that impression was false but it’s why she had so much trouble getting work after the PT.

    Cavill is not an actor who can elevate a bad script or director via the strength of his performance like say Phoenix in Joker. A lot of people love Cavill more for the fact that he looks like Superman should, his acting aside, and some do indeed like his performance so he does have a fanbase. But he has some factors in his favor:
    1. Snyder and Terrio would hopefully not be returning so maybe another director could do right by Cavill
    2. The end of the edgelord Superman direction means maybe he can show off a wider emotional range
    3. If he does a good job as Geralt it will show that Snyder was the main roadblock and would mean more hype for a return as Superman

    Finally Cavill is a fan. Did you read that Men’s Health report? One thing I admire about Cavill is I know he’s an actual nerd because he doesn’t just namedrop the popular stories. He likes stuff like For Tomorrow and H’El on Earth, he actually has a preference even if it’s not what I personally like. And he wants to bring on Brainiac which is something Superman has never had.

    My own personal preference is a full reboot. But if Cavill came back and they recasted Lex I wouldn’t be opposed to giving Cavill another go, especially if Brainiac is the big bad.

  9. #69
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkverine View Post
    Brooding Superman is not Superman. Cavil is simply bland. It’s not the character, it’s him and it’s Snyder’s inept directing. It’s the god awful writing. It’s Amy Adams putting me to sleep any time she says two words.
    But as I said, that is Superman. There is frequent usage of Superman in other media, including original comics, where he's mopey. It's not a good idea to really do, but if you're given that to work with you are better off trying your best than I dunno... giving up, I would think. The only alternative I know is not doing the role at all.

    Who knows when we'll see something but if it's not Cavill and especially under Abrams I'd bet on a relative unknown and there's no way to say if that's better or worse right now.
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  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Going by the fact JJ thought those horrible changes were good ideas way back when he was thinking about Superman years ago I am firmly in the no camp. How anyone could have read that script with all those dumb ideas and think "yeah this all sounds good" just shows he does not get anything about Superman. The evil uncle and cousin, Krypton not exploding, and Lex Luhtor being a Kryptonian just screamed "I don't even like Superman" to me.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Finally Cavill is a fan. Did you read that Men’s Health report? One thing I admire about Cavill is I know he’s an actual nerd because he doesn’t just namedrop the popular stories. He likes stuff like For Tomorrow and H’El on Earth, he actually has a preference even if it’s not what I personally like. And he wants to bring on Brainiac which is something Superman has never had.
    And let's not forget that Cavill plays Warcraft. Anybody who plays Horde can't be all bad. I mean, it's not like he plays Alliance or something.

    Stupid, filthy Alliance!

    Anyway, yeah Cavill is no Tom Hanks, but he doesn't need to be. He's playing a superhero. And while Clark is definitely one of the more nuanced, "still waters run deep" characters, it still ain't Hamlet and Cavill doesn't have to be a A-grade actor to work the role.
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  12. #72
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Superman desperately needs a crowd pleaser movie. Something kids, men, women and older fans can enjoy. A movie with a tone between Wonder Woman and Aquaman would be fantastic, IMO. A Superman movie with a good story and a new villain like Brainiac, plus some good drama, great action, some romance, joy and humor and amazing visuals (and JJ can really deliver on visuals, just look at Trek 2009), and we can have a bigger hit AND a very enjoyable movie with lots of heart.

    A crowd pleaser isn't necessarily weak in story or without substance. Many crowd pleasers have become classics and very rewatchable, and I think that's what Superman is supposed to be on film. He isn't dark or super dramatic like like Batman or Joker. Superman is a friendly guy who likes being around people and show his face.

    Now, I'm not a big JJ Abrams fan, but I can't deny the masses like his movies. As long as he has a collaborator who knows the Superman lore well and they write a strong and new story with all those elements, I really think we can have a winner. I just can't think of many other directors who could do this.
    Last edited by stargazer01; 11-23-2019 at 10:00 AM.

  13. #73
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Yeah I haven't read much about Flyby but it's a draft from almost 20 years ago and even if it sounded good, there isn't a single vision out there I wouldn't supplement considerably with character expertise and protective measures for depicting the property.

    The Aquaman and WW comparisons will continue to bug the character because they aren't really fair. Those two have exactly one shot on the big screen each, springboarding off of Superman/Batman. Superman has had a half dozen exclusive films, close to a thousand episodes across television with a new show right around the corner, and years of entries in newspaper and radio. The idea of Superman getting in line behind those two doesn't suit his qualifications. If he were a real person it would be like having him trained by a teen at McDonald's after being laid off as a public accountant.
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  14. #74
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Well I personally think a new Superman film with the tone of Wonder Woman and Aquaman would suit him perfectly because Superman is supposed to be brighter character like Wonder Woman. He needs drama and action in his stories but also joy and some humor. Clark himself can be a funny and witty guy. The Batman or Constantine comparisons is what I call not right for Superman because he's not dark or brooding.

    Besides, Wonder Woman was inspired on Superman the Movie (and it shows), according to Patty J. And Aquaman on adventure films, according to James Wan. Superman has many adventures.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Variety confirms WB has been talking to JJ Abrams about doing Superman: https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety...203415757/amp/

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