Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
  1. #1
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default Evolution of the X-Men

    Even if there are still plenty of issues I haven't read, the mutants of the Marvel universe and their concept has changed a lot over the year. So I'll attempt to make some kind of timeline (other may fill in if something is forgotten):

    During the first Lee and Kirby issues, they came up with the concept partly because Lee was tired of inventing individual backstories for each character and how they got their powers. And to make them different he also decided that humanity should fear and hate them instead of worship them as heroes. There was a school for mutants, and mutants were created because their parents worked in the nuclear industry where they were exposed to radioactivity (Sunfire's mother on the other hand was exposed to the raditation from a nuclear bobm). In the early issues we also had a Magneto that considered mutants as superior over humankind and felt they should rule the world.
    Both Lee and Kirby were probably heavily influenced by the science fiction at the time. Both about how society treated mutants, and misunderstandings about how evolution worked. There was a time when some believed that it was sudden mutations, triggered by for instance radioactivity, and not natural selections, that was the driving force of evolution. Today we know that both these elements are involved, but the old assumptions must have worked as great inspirations for sci-fi writer back then: https://www.tor.com/2018/06/14/on-th...us-dobzhansky/

    With later writers (I have not read the pre-Claremont stories yet, with a few exceptions) the school concept more or less went away. And mutations was just something that happened now and then. Letting every single mutant have one or two parents that were exposed to raditation at work, or during test bombings, would have been limiting. Also the hate and fear of mutants faded away, and they ended up as being pretty much like most other superhero groups, except for the origin of their powers, which must have bonded them together somehow. In those days it was also possible to have a list of all known mutants and their powers.
    Days of Future Past is the only storyline in the Byrne and Claremont run where we once again see hate against mutants, and only in a future they succeeded to prevent from happening. The reason why Byrne came up with the story was to prove Claremont wrong when he said that the sentinels were lame villains. So Byrne decided to make them so dangerous that they had killed almost all mutants on the planet, including the X-Men, and turned society into a dystopia. And one of the few ways to do so was by setting the story to a future that never turned real (Claremont would later turn it into an alternative future).
    When Kitty first meet Storm and she tells them they are the X-Men, she smiles and ask for an autograph. There are no comments about them being mutants, even before she learn that she is a mutant herself.

    Byrne left after issue 143, and judging by the covers on Cover Browser, the type of stories didn't change that much. The first of these issues I read was issue 169 (possibly 168), first published in 1983. This was the first time we are presented to a hidden mutant society, outcasts and misfits, and way too many to come up with individual powers, names, faces and characters. Which would also be the first time for plenty of off-screen mutants, turning mutantkind into a grey mass.

    After that storyline ends, things goes back to "normal" for a while. After that the social issues associated with the X-Men starts to emerge. In issue 184 Rachel Summers arrives our time, and she soon learns that all the hate and fear that she knows from her own timeline is about to emerge here as well. She read the minds of other people, and that is the firs time that I am aware that normal humans express hate and fear for mutants. At least I have never read any issues where Xavier read the minds of humans and see the same as her.

    By then we already had Secret Wars, which was running form 1984 to 1985, and one could talk about Marvel before and after Secret Wars. Different superhero times had clashed and confronted each other before, but this is the first time we learn that mutants are not fully trusted by other superheroes on a general basis. The healer Zsaji looks into the mind of Johnny Storm, and is able to see who he trust and doesn't. It was probably also in this series that Magneto manifest himself more as a freedom fighter than a villain, and one or two years later takes over Xavier's role at the school for some time. And in 1986 the first issue of X-Factor comes out, where the original five X-Men members pretend to be mutant hunters offering assistance to care of the mutant problem, so they to find and help other mutants.

    In issue 185 Storm is hit by a weapon that neutralizer her mutant power. Is this the first time there is a reference to "mutant powers"? That really doesn't make any sense. A mutant was originally just meant to be a superhuman that was born with their powers (or they emerged in puberty) because of a genetic mutation. Their powers are just the same as the superpowers ordinary humans get when they are exposed to cosmic rays, radioactive spiders or gamma bombs. It's just the origin of the powers that makes them different. Are Angel's wings and Nightcrawlers reduced numbers of toes and fingers superpowers? They are the reflection of the mutation, the phenotype. If the mutation express itself in a certain anatomy or powers shouldn't matter much in that context.

    In issue 191 it turns out Nimrod has followed Rachel from the future, and is programmed to kill all mutants. We start to see grafitti and hear words like "die mutie" for the firs time. Kitty is sprayed with pepper spray by some of her fully human classmates and almost killed after they suspect her of being a mutant.

    In issue 210 we see the first mutant genocide, when the Marauders kills almost all the Morlocks. By then the mutant hating society, which was absent at least in the issues from 70s and early 80s that I have. When you read the X-Men during the Byrne run, which kid wouldn't love to be accapted at The Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters? Just saw a free sample from the new X-Men, and Scott Summers have certainly turned into a douchebag. I think less kids would want to join the X-Men today.

    In the mid 90s we had the Phalanx, which once again proved that mutants were different from other superhumans in more ways than one. They were somehow immune to the techno-organic virus. Then came the mini-series Age of Apocalypse, where "mutant nazis" for the lack of a better word had become rulers of the world. (A character similar to Apocalypse, but which came much later, is Romulus)

    In 2000 we saw the first X-Men movie, and the humanity versus mutants became clearer than ever. And it affected the comics. During the Grant Morrison run, we were given Sublime, a sentient virus that is later used to explain why humans hate mutants. Again, becuse they are immune for some reason. Morrison turned the school into the superhero version of Hogwarts. Like the Morlocks, the mutants were simply too many to descibe individually. And we got mutant fashion, mutant subcultures, mutant drugs and so on. It must have been during this time that we got mutants that had no powers, but just had extremely long limbs or looked like anthro animals (and one made of living gas). A very different concept from what we had been before.

    At the same time we also got secondary mutations, and a villain like Vargas, that was born with his powers just like mutants, but was not a mutants. Instead he was explained like humanity's white blood cell, and the mutants were the virus.

    In addition, Morrison invented Cassandra Nova, which was both a mutant and some mythical being. And The World, where human DNA was spliced with sentinel nanotechnology to create superbeings that could take care of the "mutant problem".
    And there was some sort of genetic countdown, which had created literally millions of mutants worldwide, giving us whole areas of cities were mutants lived. And soon all humans would be mutants. Before that happened, there was an even bigger genocide on millions of mutants on the island Genosha. Making the comic more political then ever.

    The Scarlet Witch ended up depowering practial all mutants, and it could be in this context that we first learned about "the X-gene". Not "a mutant gene", but a spesific gene associated with all mutants located on chromosome 23, if I'm correct.

    What happens after that, I don't know much about. I haven't read most of those issues. The X-Men of the old days is long gone. There are those who says that the comic has always been political and about bigotry, racism and intolerance. No, not always. But it has become such an integrated part of the mutant concept by now, and been given such a huge role and significance, it is no longer possible to go back. If we should see something like it, it would either have to be a "hidden years" concept, or a similar idea about humans born with superpowers for a spesific reason but without being actual mutants.
    Last edited by Banner; 07-26-2019 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    5,235

    Default

    I miss when they did not portray all humans as anti-mutant back in the high 100s thru the 200s. There was a balance. Sure Xavier got jumped by anti-mutant students after giving a lecture. But you also had Rogue save a window washer who stood up to some snobby anti-mutant guy right afterward. Just my humble $0.02 worth....but Marvel needs to take the status quo back to that. 10-15% of the population are total anti-mutant. Anther 10-15% are pro-mutant. And the rest are a toss up.

  3. #3

    Default

    You know one story I would love for them to revisit. When Nimrod attacked Master Mold in New York at the same time Master Mold was attacking the X-Men but also putting civilians at risk. For a while Nimrod and reassessed his primary programming and decide to stop killing mutants and just apprehend them and turn them in to the police if they committed crimes. After linking up with Master Mold though, Nimrod saw the flaw in the whole concept of humans wanting to kill their own next evolutionary step. Nimrod realized that he had mutated himself when he changed his core programming to accommodate the different time period, and thus Nimrod was a mutant himself. He then exerted control over Master Mold and held him in stasis and told Rogue to kill them both so Master Mold wouldn't get free.

    I would like it if Nimrod showed up as the version that was merged with Master Mold before they were both pushed through the Siege Perilous and merged into Bastion. I kind of want Nimrod to show up and land down between some mutants being persecuted by humans or other Sentinels and everyone expects Nimrod to attack the mutants and instead he turns toward their enemies and says "Core programming complete, Protect and Defend Mutants by any means necessary!"

    That would be great if that happened.

  4. #4
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I miss when they did not portray all humans as anti-mutant back in the high 100s thru the 200s. There was a balance. Sure Xavier got jumped by anti-mutant students after giving a lecture. But you also had Rogue save a window washer who stood up to some snobby anti-mutant guy right afterward. Just my humble $0.02 worth....but Marvel needs to take the status quo back to that. 10-15% of the population are total anti-mutant. Anther 10-15% are pro-mutant. And the rest are a toss up.
    It was about that time the mutant hate was getting out of control. A few years earlier even Xavier being hit by bricks would have been unthinkable, and some years later practically everybody hates them.

  5. #5
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    You know one story I would love for them to revisit. When Nimrod attacked Master Mold in New York at the same time Master Mold was attacking the X-Men but also putting civilians at risk. For a while Nimrod and reassessed his primary programming and decide to stop killing mutants and just apprehend them and turn them in to the police if they committed crimes. After linking up with Master Mold though, Nimrod saw the flaw in the whole concept of humans wanting to kill their own next evolutionary step. Nimrod realized that he had mutated himself when he changed his core programming to accommodate the different time period, and thus Nimrod was a mutant himself. He then exerted control over Master Mold and held him in stasis and told Rogue to kill them both so Master Mold wouldn't get free.

    I would like it if Nimrod showed up as the version that was merged with Master Mold before they were both pushed through the Siege Perilous and merged into Bastion. I kind of want Nimrod to show up and land down between some mutants being persecuted by humans or other Sentinels and everyone expects Nimrod to attack the mutants and instead he turns toward their enemies and says "Core programming complete, Protect and Defend Mutants by any means necessary!"

    That would be great if that happened.
    I must confess I have not read that particular story, but the idea of a robot coming to the conclusion that hating and killing mutants doesn't make sense from a logical point of view is something that probably wouldn't hurt to introduce again in one form or another.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    5,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    It was about that time the mutant hate was getting out of control. A few years earlier even Xavier being hit by bricks would have been unthinkable, and some years later practically everybody hates them.
    That is the thing that really gets to me about it. It is almost like Marvel is trying to portray every human as anti mutant.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    I must confess I have not read that particular story, but the idea of a robot coming to the conclusion that hating and killing mutants doesn't make sense from a logical point of view is something that probably wouldn't hurt to introduce again in one form or another.
    It was when Rogue went through the Siege Perilous, she got pulled in at the same time as Master Mold (being contained by Nimrod).

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    5,235

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    It was when Rogue went through the Siege Perilous, she got pulled in at the same time as Master Mold (being contained by Nimrod).
    I liked Nimrod at that time. He had an secret identity and would speak with a more common tone.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I liked Nimrod at that time. He had an secret identity and would speak with a more common tone.
    Yeah and they showed his progression right up to the Siege Perilous issue, each issue of X-Men there would be a few panels showing how Nimrod was changing his attitude and adjusting his core programming for the modern era. He got a job as a construction worker, he started examining humans more to understand why they hated mutants so much, he started to question his own directives and made his own decision to stop using lethal means against mutants.

  10. #10
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    That is the thing that really gets to me about it. It is almost like Marvel is trying to portray every human as anti mutant.
    I don't know if it is official or just a fan-made theory, but it is claimed that the sentient virus Sublime, as mentioned invented by Grant Morrison, consider mutants to be enemies because they are immune to infections. And since it is able to manipulate ideas, thoughts and emotions in those alredy infected, which counts a huge number of humans, he made them hate mutants so badly they wanted to get rid of them once and for all. If that is true, and most of the hate is really caused by some sentient microbe, it could be an indication that even Marvel felt all the massive anger and hostility towards mutants didn't really make sense. Even if this was introduced long after society turned against mutants, and not much is talked about it these days, it at least opens up the possibility that next time Marvel decides to go for a new major storyline that promise the X-Men universe will never be the same again, we could have a global vaccine or something that removes the microbe from humanity, and gets rid of the extreme hate for mutants.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    4,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    It was about that time the mutant hate was getting out of control. A few years earlier even Xavier being hit by bricks would have been unthinkable, and some years later practically everybody hates them.
    Some years later and many, many destructions later… How many time New York has been leveled? Even when the 'bad' mutants didn't target specifically the human, the collateral damages must have been huge: persons wounded, killed, properties destructed… People haven't necessarily the money to rebuild.
    The problem is the number: as long as the mutants were just a few, they were rather ignored, an oddity. The fact that the number of them in families has significantly increased must have trigger a paranoïa, rumors, an emotional outburst and an escalation of the violence.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  12. #12
    Comic Geek in General
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Woodbury, NJ
    Posts
    452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    That is the thing that really gets to me about it. It is almost like Marvel is trying to portray every human as anti mutant.
    I’m sure one could retcon the recent surge in hate to Hate Monger......

  13. #13
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Some years later and many, many destructions later… How many time New York has been leveled? Even when the 'bad' mutants didn't target specifically the human, the collateral damages must have been huge: persons wounded, killed, properties destructed… People haven't necessarily the money to rebuild.
    The problem is the number: as long as the mutants were just a few, they were rather ignored, an oddity. The fact that the number of them in families has significantly increased must have trigger a paranoïa, rumors, an emotional outburst and an escalation of the violence.
    That has never been a official explanation, as far as I know. It has always been because mutants are "different", and for reasons like humans being afraid of being replaced. The whole "homo superior" thing and so on. Which doesn't make sense as long as the changes comes from within. Mutants are not a different species, they are humans, our descendants, with a mutation that gives them special abilities. When the mutant hate was establishing itself, it was always directed towards the mutants, and for them being mutants. I don't recall anyone showing statistics about their increasing numbers or such.
    A little off topic, but in my opinion, I think using superhumans as a background, where they counts thousands or even millions, is generally not a good idea. They should be introduced as characters, either individually or in teams, so you know their names, appearence and powers.

    (The idea of accidentally lost lives and destruction of buildings was used as a trigger for the superhero registration act in Civil War, in an attempt to add more social realism to the Marvel comics. Personally I didn't like it, and is an example of comics cannibalizing themselves, which have consequences in the long run, so they can have material for "huge events" and various cross-overs in the short run.)

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    4,580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    That has never been a official explanation, as far as I know. It has always been because mutants are "different", and for reasons like humans being afraid of being replaced. The whole "homo superior" thing and so on. Which doesn't make sense as long as the changes comes from within. Mutants are not a different species, they are humans, our descendants, with a mutation that gives them special abilities. When the mutant hate was establishing itself, it was always directed towards the mutants, and for them being mutants. I don't recall anyone showing statistics about their increasing numbers or such.
    It's not really statistics but there's this conversation between Xavier and Magneto in the second issue of Excalibur #3 when Xavier says:
    — (…) I never imagined that so many mutants would manifest so quickly. It's like we jump a score of evolutionary generations in as many months.

    And I recall a comic where Jean came because parents were afraid of their girl. Jean was trying to talk to the mother trying to calm her when she heard a bang: the father had killed her daughter. Having a mutant child, apparently, was seen like a curse, something unbearable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    A little off topic, but in my opinion, I think using superhumans as a background, where they counts thousands or even millions, is generally not a good idea. They should be introduced as characters, either individually or in teams, so you know their names, appearence and powers.
    And, still, when you don't know personally someone, you first identify him as a member of a group. It's a natural thing to do. As a reader, you know the mutants, you have an insight of who they are, who are the good, who are the bad… A "normal" person cannot have this knowledge, unless he is one of their close friends like Moira. He can only have second-hand opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banner View Post
    (The idea of accidentally lost lives and destruction of buildings was used as a trigger for the superhero registration act in Civil War, in an attempt to add more social realism to the Marvel comics. Personally I didn't like it, and is an example of comics cannibalizing themselves, which have consequences in the long run, so they can have material for "huge events" and various cross-overs in the short run.)
    The fact that there were destructions and victims must have fueled hatred. It may be an excuse but it's logical to think that.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  15. #15
    Spectacular Member Banner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    It's not really statistics but there's this conversation between Xavier and Magneto in the second issue of Excalibur #3 when Xavier says:
    — (…) I never imagined that so many mutants would manifest so quickly. It's like we jump a score of evolutionary generations in as many months.

    And I recall a comic where Jean came because parents were afraid of their girl. Jean was trying to talk to the mother trying to calm her when she heard a bang: the father had killed her daughter. Having a mutant child, apparently, was seen like a curse, something unbearable.
    Excalibur volume 3 was published in 2004. By then the irrational mutant hate had already been around for years. And Marvel obviously still don't get the concept of evolution right. I assume the comic where a daughter is killed by her own father happened on this side of the century as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    And, still, when you don't know personally someone, you first identify him as a member of a group. It's a natural thing to do. As a reader, you know the mutants, you have an insight of who they are, who are the good, who are the bad… A "normal" person cannot have this knowledge, unless he is one of their close friends like Moira. He can only have second-hand opinion.
    That should go for all the superheroes, aliens, supernatural beings, robots and other creatures in the Marvel universe, not just mutants. And I was talking from the point of view as a reader and how all the invisible background characters affects the title in a negative way. The writers and artists are simply throwing in the towel. It's too much for them to come up with powers and appearences for all of them, and in my eyes it cheapens the comic. In the old days they used to first invent the characters and their powers, names and costumes before introducing them. That was the whole point with "Who's Who: The Definitive Directory of the DC Universe" and "The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe". It showed you all the superhumans, vigilants and alien races that existed in the comic book universe.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    The fact that there were destructions and victims must have fueled hatred. It may be an excuse but it's logical to think that.
    Superhero comics don't always follow real world logic. They should always be credible on their own merits, but they don't have to be realistic on a social level. Moore wrote Watchmen by thinking "what if superheroes were real, what would they be like?". Marvel don't show us how society would be if superbeings really existed. If we lived in such a world, ourc society would have been changed to the unrecognizable. By striving for more real world realism in an already established superhero universe where this kind of realism has been absent for most of its existense, and even use it as a tool for social comments, they comics are drained of their fun. These are not the comics I would have been interested in reading as a kid.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •