Which one gets the title of
Most Important Civilian Human Character in the 80 Year History of the Batverse
and why?
Civilian = no superhuman abilities and no alter ego
(Poll forthcoming)
Which one gets the title of
Most Important Civilian Human Character in the 80 Year History of the Batverse
and why?
Civilian = no superhuman abilities and no alter ego
(Poll forthcoming)
My take:
Alfred is indispensable to Bruce Wayne.
Batman can't survive in Gotham without Jim Gordon.
Gordon has continuous YODO (Year One Day One) status since Detective Comics #27 in 1939.
He wins the title, imo.
Martha and Thomas Wayne.
Without them, there is no "I am the Vengeance!"
I wanted to give it to Alfred, but going back to the older comics Gordon was far more essential in those stories than Alfred was. I feel like Alfred's importance grew as the years went by.
Today, they're both equally important IMO. But historically, Gordon has been far more important.
80 years means Gordon. He's been there from the first panel. On topic, he's a crucial help from the legal side, uprooting GCPD corruption, providing info on crime, letting Batfam do their job, pretending not knowing their identity and withstanding heart attack every time Batman appear suddenly
It's extremely close, but I lead towards Gordon since he was there from the very beginning. Alfred's prominence grew, but he didn't start out that way and he even appeared AFTER Robin.
Went with Gordon because Alfred is overrated as hell these days
It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?
Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
-Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)
I vote for Alfred.. In his early days if Batman needed help, Alfred was his only option..
He is here since the begin as ally.
They are both essential but slight edge to Alfred in my opinion. Bruce does not remain a somewhat stable heroic person without Alfred. Alfred seems to be the only one who can at times check Bruce and make him reconsider things. Also Alfred being there as a father figure and person who raised Bruce after the death of the Waynes is pretty much the only reason Bruce still had a sense of family or love in his heart. Gordon is essential to him functioning as Batman but the upbringing and stability that Alfred provided to him as a kid is a huge part of the reason that Batman is a hero who Gordon is willing to work with. That and Alfred being excellent at treating injuries is huge key to how Bruce survives and maintains his dual identity. I would say the whole reason Bruce has a batfamily and they stay somewhat functional is because of Alfred being there.
What really broke the tie for me was that brilliant scene in Arkham Knight where Bruce says "it's what you taught me, do the right thing, that's all that matters" to Alfred. Really shows how essential Alfred is to the existence, conscience and morals that Batman has.
Last edited by regg215; 07-27-2019 at 12:59 PM.
"You know, there are some words I've known since I was a schoolboy: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.. The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged"- CAPT. Picard
IDK, Alfred being present to help raise him seems at odds with post-Crisis Bruce somehow being less emotionally stable than the pre-Crisis one who wasn't raised by Alfred and didn't meet him until well into adulthood.
Alfred kind of comes up short in the rearing department compared to Uncle Phillip I guess.
OP Question - Alfred is more important to the character of Batman, IMO.
"So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."
I originally went with Jim Gordon, but what a question! I love that one Morrison moment, where Jim Gordon asks Batman why he chose an indestructible and immortal enemy to fight against and Batman answers, same reason you did, I thought I could take him! Then I chose Alfred because Michael Caine and young Bruce were so perfect together in the Nolan films. So yeah Alfred, especially when they say he was some sort of theater nerd and super spy back in the day. Isn't that Batman in the end?
Easy for me. For me, the most compelling creation in the Batman mythos is the city of Gotham, and Gordon has been integral to that from the beginning.
«Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])