Black Panther (T'challa) vs. Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)

[MorphyVSFischer]

Can 'we' get past Pendaran vs. Semantics and return to Spider vs. Panther? Regardless of whether he's peak human or superhuman, he still stands level with several Avengers and thus is capable of fighting Spider-Woman.

If by "stands with" you mean fights with sure, but everyone does that. His actually feats are no where near hers, the dude is a pretty standard peak human.

So far the consensus has been that Jess is faster but T'challa is smarter.

When has being smarter made a difference in a non prep fight?

[Pendaran]

Can 'we' get past Pendaran vs. Semantics and return to Spider vs. Panther? Regardless of whether he's peak human or superhuman, he still stands level with several Avengers and thus is capable of fighting Spider-Woman.

So far the consensus has been that Jess is faster but T'challa is smarter.

It's a pretty far reach to call requiring actual stuff from published comics instead of falling back on what's noted on a website semantics.

Regardless of whether he's peak human or superhuman, he still stands level with several Avengers

Deathstroke hits the Wally West Flash, does that make Deathstroke faster than light, or the Flash's capacity ignored in the comic so that Deathstroke can be portrayed as hitting him? Do you have any sort of argument here? Hellcat "stands with" the Defenders, who include Doctor Strange and the Silver Surfer, does that mean she's as capable as them?

So far the consensus has been that Jess is faster but T'challa is smarter.

What does this have to do with T'challa winning this fight?

[ImprobableQuestion]

It doesn't. I was making an observation. I'm not an experienced rumbler, I just picked two characters I happen to be interested in.

[Pendaran]

Well, again, it's a pretty basic setup. Make claim about character X, person can then entirely go in the face of it "what is that based on?", and ideally the response involves "based on this thing character X did" or just an "I'm not actually admittedly sure". Responding person then might either go "ah, okay." Or "yes, but character Y did this, which I think is better" or "I don't think that thing was a legit showing, and here's why." To which the dude making the claim might then go "ah, okay" or, "but ah ha, character X also did this, this and this, which is far better than character Y" or "no, it was totally a legit showing for character X, and here is why". And so forth.

[big_adventure]

It doesn't. I was making an observation. I'm not an experienced rumbler, I just picked two characters I happen to be interested in.

Enjoy both of them! Just don't put poor T'Challa against Jess in a Rumble. Default Rumbles have a very specific setup:

1. Combatants start 100 feet apart.
2. They have their standard gear only.
3. They do not get to prepare (no drawing guns, activating machines, turning on powers before the fight, etc.)
4. They fight as hard as they can to win, even if that isn't what they'd do normally - Superman wouldn't risk a full-strength punch against most people at the start of the fight in a comic, since a) he doesn't want to atomize them and b) the writer wants the fight to last longer than a panel. But here, he's absolutely going to go all out.
5. They are in the empty, unbreakable, stadium-sized Khazan arena.
6. They do not forget abilities or powers.

Here, you have the significantly faster, significantly stronger, significantly more durable and super-powered besides Jess against the Captain America-ish Panther. T'Challa won't really know what happened when she rips his heart out of his chest cavity.

[moonknight11]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as it seems.

Jess isn't quicksilver, she won't be crossing the 100 feet before Black Panther goes invisible or teleports further away. If he can get the drop on her he can use a bladed weapon to take her out.

How fast are her venom blasts? Could she strike a CBPH with them before they can react?

[big_adventure]

I don't think it's as cut and dry as it seems.

Jess isn't quicksilver, she won't be crossing the 100 feet before Black Panther goes invisible or teleports further away. If he can get the drop on her he can use a bladed weapon to take her out.

How fast are her venom blasts? Could she strike a CBPH with them before they can react?

Sure she could - especially since she's faster than the CBPH in question.

[Vanguard]

Black Panther wins.

He has access to teleportation and invisibility. He now has superhuman stats and has been shown to be strong enough to snap a rifle in half with his hands.

[MorphyVSFischer]

Black Panther wins.

He has access to teleportation and invisibility. He now has superhuman stats and has been shown to be strong enough to snap a rifle in half with his hands.

Its not a prep fight so the first point is useless.

Snapping a rifle in his hands isn't beyond the range of any comic book peak human like Batman and Cap as well.

[Vanguard]

Its not a prep fight so the first point is useless.

Snapping a rifle in his hands isn't beyond the range of any comic book peak human like Batman and Cap as well.

You show me any of the above snapping a rifle like a stick and then I'll agree. Besides if Panther can hang with Namor like he just did recently, he can take Spider Woman.

[Hazard]

You show me any of the above snapping a rifle like a stick and then I'll agree. Besides if Panther can hang with Namor like he just did recently, he can take Spider Woman.

Yeah, that's kind of a big if.

I mean, it's not like Panther really hurt the guy. Even taking the feat at face value, those purple energy claws and stuff caused Namor some pain, but by the end Namor flew away pretty much unharmed.

[Vanguard]

Yeah, that's kind of a big if.

I mean, it's not like Panther really hurt the guy. Even taking the feat at face value, those purple energy claws and stuff caused Namor some pain, but by the end Namor flew away pretty much unharmed.

Namor sure didn't stick around for more. And I 'd say they caused him a good deal of pain based on his espressions and hollering.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Yeah, that's kind of a big if.

I mean, it's not like Panther really hurt the guy. Sure, those purple energy claws and stuff caused Namor some pain, but by the end Namor flew away pretty much unharmed.

Heck, Wolverine has fought and shanked Namor on numerous occasions, to little effect (apparently, internal organs are not something Namor has any need for), and had Thor commenting on how he was faster than the Odinson the last time they tussled, which was fairly recently.

So, yeah, unless BP has feats consistently on that level, its probably just SMvFL like the whole Silver Surfer Armbar thingy so that the next issue won't be about the guy whose replacing T'Challa while he waits in the queue to come back to life.

[Pendaran]

You show me any of the above snapping a rifle like a stick and then I'll agree

I was going to list some other stuff both equivalent and beyond such things for both characters (kicking apart/down a tree, punching people through brick walls, digging oneself out from one's own grave, snapping a sword in half with one's bare foot), but if you want to stick to the realm of guns, starting with Batman, and just going from new 52 stuff, dude with one hand grabbed a handgun and basically crushed it within such without particularly looking to be putting in effort. Captain America once straight up grabbed some high tech rifle from a Shield agent and busted it to flinders between his hands. Scans incoming.

Breaking guns is not some glorious beyond peak human thing. It's standard peak human bullcrap.

[Vanguard]

So, yeah, unless BP has feats consistently on that level, its probably just SMvFL like the whole Silver Surfer Armbar thingy so that the next issue won't be about the guy whose replacing T'Challa while he waits in the queue to come back to life.

This isn't the first time he's done well against Namor so it isn't SMvFL. Just to clarify...he was using his energy gauntlets he doesn't just use them to claw and burn, he punches with them also.