THE BOYS on Amazon Prime

[Michael Watkins]

I still think Homelander is worse. He the baby in that situation in the first place and he's killed far more children than Butcher did in that moment. Butcher had nowhere to go at that point.

can we know that for sure? we didn't see any of their activity pre-Huey. there was definitely blood on his hands. he used a baby as a weapon early in the series. he was, in effect, endangering that supe child (what if the guards had fired upon him?). he leveraged and disposed of Huey when convenient. Homelander's a monster, imo. but i don't think he's that different from Butcher. he's just a phony/image conscious. he really couldn't have saved all of the people on the plane. and he's right. if he had saved anyone, they would have told the world that he left the others behind. it's just human nature.

[kidfresh512]

did he rape her? i don't know that it was made clear by the video footage.

Well Butcher thought he did, and he thought he killed her so the story wouldn't get out. Whether Homelander actually did or not doesn't change Butcher's motivations and the lengths he went too to be a terrorist out for revenge.

They can get some really deep character work out of exploring the whole mess next season. I'd like to see Butcher explore how far gone he is, what he let his life become in this vengeance crusade. Can he become a whole person again? He has to completely re examine who he is as a person everything he lived for turned out to be wrong.

[CliffHanger2]

Well it's basically a bunch of privileged establishment a-holes vs a bunch of terrorist a-holes. The establishment types have been corrupted by privilege and the need to be ruthless in order to keep that privilege. And the terrorists have been corrupted all the deviousness and ruthlessness they've needed to adopt to have any chance of hurting the entrenched establishment types.

Indeed, the story is basically about how easily corrupted humans are, both by privilege, and the absolute desperate absence of privilege.

Yeah it's definitely a story about human frailty and corruption. I think terrorist is a good label for the boys.

[CliffHanger2]

Nah there is no redeeming Butcher in that instance. You lost just die. He choose to take out a baby. He is no better than Homelander. And I hope season 2 explores that. Its an actually interesting dynamic. If you juxtapose why Homelander is the way he is. He was raised as a lab experiment. He knew it. He wasn't nurtured and given boundaries and love. He was always told he can do whatever he wants. So did he rape Butcher's wife yes he did and he did a million other horrible things.

But Butcher, is no better, hes not righteous. He doesn't give a **** about defending other people or innocents. He only wants revenge. Thats why the final scenes were so powerful. You turned into a baby killing monster yourself for revenge. He left his friends that came to his cause to be captured, tortured, killed he didnt care. And what was it all for in the end? After the final scenes with him and Homelander, now what?

Yeah I'd have to agree Homelander was bred to be a monster doesn't let him off the hook for all he's done but yeah. Butcher isn't even really sure his wife is dead and still goes all out with no regard for anyone's life including innocents it's like wtf. I think Homelander saves him at the end because he thinks he found a kindred spirit. Like "Ah this guy is just like me, just without powers."

[Immortal Weapon]

can we know that for sure? we didn't see any of their activity pre-Huey. there was definitely blood on his hands. he used a baby as a weapon early in the series. he was, in effect, endangering that supe child (what if the guards had fired upon him?). he leveraged and disposed of Huey when convenient. Homelander's a monster, imo. but i don't think he's that different from Butcher. he's just a phony/image conscious. he really couldn't have saved all of the people on the plane. and he's right. if he had saved anyone, they would have told the world that he left the others behind. it's just human nature.

Yes we know that for sure. When he shot down the Major's plane he had his son with him. That's a direct murder of a child right there.

The hijack plane is partially on Homelander. He could have been more careful with his heat vision so he didn't fry the plane controls. He had options and he chose none.

[Immortal Weapon]

did he rape her? i don't know that it was made clear by the video footage.

I believe he did. In the surveillance footage in the park and in the flashbacks we saw when Butcher was beating up mesmer we saw that she was traumatized.

[Nite-Wing]

Well Butcher thought he did, and he thought he killed her so the story wouldn't get out. Whether Homelander actually did or not doesn't change Butcher's motivations and the lengths he went too to be a terrorist out for revenge.

They can get some really deep character work out of exploring the whole mess next season. I'd like to see Butcher explore how far gone he is, what he let his life become in this vengeance crusade. Can he become a whole person again? He has to completely re examine who he is as a person everything he lived for turned out to be wrong.

Hopefully they go that route
They are kinda stepping away from the comics but its a nice firm ground they've built up that can make it an even more interesting direction

[Michael Watkins]

i predict that Butcher will be broken by this. and it will probably be Huey who has to recommit him to the cause. i don't like Starlight's chances.

[Michael Watkins]

I believe he did. In the surveillance footage in the park and in the flashbacks we saw when Butcher was beating up mesmer we saw that she was traumatized.

in the Mesmer encounter all we saw was that Butcher was traumatized by the loss of his wife and had probably done some hardcore stuff afterwards. and Mesmer immediately sold him out. in the surveillance footage, we saw a conflicted woman taking the next step in her life. that step ended up being to disappear. it'd be one thing if we had seen even a glimpse of Homelander being rapey to someone else. but, even as entitled as he is, i don't think that he could bring himself to sleep with someone without consent. look at his interactions with Maeve or Elisabeth Shue's character. he spent all of that time staring at her through the wall. but he needed her permission to "cuddle." i think he's as much of a prude as Jason Vorhees.

[Michael Watkins]

Yes we know that for sure. When he shot down the Major's plane he had his son with him. That's a direct murder of a child right there.

The hijack plane is partially on Homelander. He could have been more careful with his heat vision so he didn't fry the plane controls. He had options and he chose none.

i don't need to defend him. i said upfront that i consider him to be a monster. the issue is thinking that Butcher is better. i'd say that he's just as callous and reckless with the lives of innocents. did he give a **** that the landlord got his face mashed? look at all of the attempts to murder Transluscent. we as an audience don't care because we were introduced to him as one of the villains. but was he? was he someone that needed to be murdered? did Starlight deserve to get shot? if Butcher had Homelander's powers, i'd wager that more than a few innocents would lose their lives. the guy is laser focused on revenge.

[Username taken]

I think the series is actually following the comics but in a different fashion because it's quite clear that Hughie and Starlight are the *heroes* of the series.

Granted Hughie has done some questionable things (killing Translucent) but you can still root for him.

Butcher is a protagonist but he's NOT a hero and the series has pretty much been explicit about this.

[Immortal Weapon]

i don't need to defend him. i said upfront that i consider him to be a monster. the issue is thinking that Butcher is better. i'd say that he's just as callous and reckless with the lives of innocents. did he give a **** that the landlord got his face mashed? look at all of the attempts to murder Transluscent. we as an audience don't care because we were introduced to him as one of the villains. but was he? was he someone that needed to be murdered? did Starlight deserve to get shot? if Butcher had Homelander's powers, i'd wager that more than a few innocents would lose their lives. the guy is laser focused on revenge.

I don't see Butcher as better. I look at him as the lesser evil. Other than the bombing with the baby we haven't seen Butcher disregarding the lives of Innocents.

The landlord was already screwed (no pun intended). None of those guys would have made it to the apartment in time to save him. He died shortly after Hughie decided to take action. It would have been pointless

I argue Translucent needed to be murdered. The boys would have been burned a lot sooner if they had let him go. Didn't help Translucent kept telling them they were dead. He didn't change his tune until Frenchie found a way to kill the guy.

[CliffHanger2]

I don't see Butcher as better. I look at him as the lesser evil. Other than the bombing with the baby we haven't seen Butcher disregarding the lives of Innocents.

The landlord was already screwed (no pun intended). None of those guys would have made it to the apartment in time to save him. He died shortly after Hughie decided to take action. It would have been pointless

I argue Translucent needed to be murdered. The boys would have been burned a lot sooner if they had let him go. Didn't help Translucent kept telling them they were dead. He didn't change his tune until Frenchie found a way to kill the guy.

Frenchie was done with Butcher until Butcher let Translucent see his face. He was just pulling ppl down with him the whole time the guy didn't give a fk about anybody.

[Farealmer]

I argue Translucent needed to be murdered. The boys would have been burned a lot sooner if they had let him go. Didn't help Translucent kept telling them they were dead. He didn't change his tune until Frenchie found a way to kill the guy.

From his viewpoint these were guys who placed a bug in the Seven's meeting room and kidnapped him with the intent to kill him after he confronted them. Why wouldn't he make threats in that situation? Was he shown do have done anything worthy of death otherwise?

I don't like what they did with Huey. He's too bloodthirsty. One of the things I liked about the comic is it took a lot to get Huey to kill someone deliberately. The first person he killed was by complete accident because he just got his powers.

[Immortal Weapon]

From his viewpoint these were guys who placed a bug in the Seven's meeting room and kidnapped him with the intent to kill him after he confronted them. Why wouldn't he make threats in that situation? Was he shown do have done anything worthy of death otherwise?

I don't like what they did with Huey. He's too bloodthirsty. One of the things I liked about the comic is it took a lot to get Huey to kill someone deliberately. The first person he killed was by complete accident because he just got his powers.

Translucent did more than confront. He tried to kill Hughie at his place of work. He didn't seem interested in why Hughie would do that. The kidnapping only happened because they thought they killed him after the confrontation at the store and were going to dispose of the body.