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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I don't care about the Marvel and DC peeing match both companies should just go with whatever tone fits the character they are adapting for screen.

    Don't make Batman or Blade silly but don't make the FF or Booster Gold brooding either.
    Sadly it feels like DC have got stuck in a second guessing game where they are more likely to make the old mistakes. We all know that the worst Superhero movies are where the studio give too much leeway to a visionary director, or in other words a director that doesn’t particularly like comics or thinks things should be more realistic/edgy/relevant/fashionable etc.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I don't care about the Marvel and DC peeing match both companies should just go with whatever tone fits the character they are adapting for screen.

    Don't make Batman or Blade silly but don't make the FF or Booster Gold brooding either.
    This was definitely something that WB/DC needed to learn, as they were trying to force everything to be like TDK after that film's massive success...as you could see it didn't work.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    This was definitely something that WB/DC needed to learn, as they were trying to force everything to be like TDK after that film's massive success...as you could see it didn't work.
    I'm actually not convinced that if MoS or Batman v Superman had been like TDK in tone AND script quality that it would have failed. those movies problems were not what they were trying to be like, just that they were not done well.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Why would that be problematic?
    There was some weird thing about Black Mask wanting to kill someone in the movie because they witnessed him committing a sex act with another male criminal or something.

    It sounded somewhat over the top because it’s like the movie is using the characters homosexuality as a motivating factor in his actions. Which is silly because this is 2019 and LGBT people have gained widespread (even if not universal) acceptance in the US.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    There was some weird thing about Black Mask wanting to kill someone in the movie because they witnessed him committing a sex act with another male criminal or something.

    It sounded somewhat over the top because it’s like the movie is using the characters homosexuality as a motivating factor in his actions. Which is silly because this is 2019 and LGBT people have gained widespread (even if not universal) acceptance in the US.
    Which America do you live in? LGBT people have gained universal acceptance?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Sadly it feels like DC have got stuck in a second guessing game where they are more likely to make the old mistakes. We all know that the worst Superhero movies are where the studio give too much leeway to a visionary director, or in other words a director that doesn’t particularly like comics or thinks things should be more realistic/edgy/relevant/fashionable etc.
    Not even close to true. Batman & Robin, ASM 2, Spider-Man 3, Blade 3 were not the result of a director having too much leeway.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by obatalla View Post
    Which America do you live in? LGBT people have gained universal acceptance?
    That’s what I said.

  8. #38
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not even close to true. Batman & Robin, ASM 2, Spider-Man 3, Blade 3 were not the result of a director having too much leeway.
    Not the way I see it. B&R clearly was. Both ASM movies are arguably part of this phenomenon. I never properly watched either of the last two which suggests there was a bigger problem with SM3 and Blade 3, but notably all of your examples are sequels. It might be nice if a few more DC movies got it right in the first movie don’t you think? And here’s a clue, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are exceptions, and still suffer from key problems that their audiences were prepared to overlook.

    Importantly ASM2 wasn’t a box office failure it was a promotional failure. Sony spent too much trying to make it bigger than it should be.

    B&R is the real point to consider. Batman fans are uniquely touchy and that ‘it must be serious and not at all camp’ fear should not be allowed to set the agenda for the entire line. It shouldn’t have set the agenda for Batman either but WB are so scared of fans.

    Try telling MCU fans that the movies should be more serious or even less camp. By the original definition superheroes are inherently camp. Even Batman. Even Miller is inherently camp.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 07-30-2019 at 12:39 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Dr. Skeleton's Avatar
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    I hate that DC don't get treated fairly and felt the reviews via Rotten Toamotes was BS while they praised pretty much every Marvel movie with the exceptions or their Fox and Sony counterparts. I still think they should've have enough balls to go forward for sequels for Green Lantern and Justice League. Nobody shouldn't be glad if their movies have failed, especially if you're a DC fan. Their mistake was that they released three of their movies so close to the release of a Pixar movie which has always been they're undoing, even though I'll never understand people's love for Pixar. How Coco buried Justice League just after a week of it's release was a total tragedy and the bad word of mouth contributed to it even though half of JL's reviews has gotten praise but people decided to lean torwards the bad reviews. Another problem with WB/DC is that they're afraid to take risks and it seems they're letting their critics control them. Yet, we're getting a sequel to Suicide Squad, ironically. I think they should've gotten the ball rolling with their movies years ago. We almost got a Wonder Woman movie earlier and a Flash movie if made sooner would've been the perfect replacement for the Spider-Man franchise. My other gripe is their TV shows. They tend to shy from the source materials and make it their own universe. Plus it seems to be with WB that it's much easier for them despite the TV budgets as far as the special FX goes. Plus, the shows would act too much like teen soap operas. Not my cup of tea. It's not fair people gotta watch a DC movie under a microscope to find anything wrong with it to officially declared it a bad movie while Marvel seems to get away with anything no matter how ludicrous. I miss the times where people enjoyed comic movies in general instead of turning it into a turf war and ruining it for everybody.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    That’s what I said.
    I don't want to derail the topic too much but you do know it's legal to fire someone just for being LGBTQ in 26 states, right?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Not the way I see it. B&R clearly was. Both ASM movies are arguably part of this phenomenon. I never properly watched either of the last two which suggests there was a bigger problem with SM3 and Blade 3, but notably all of your examples are sequels. It might be nice if a few more DC movies got it right in the first movie don’t you think? And here’s a clue, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are exceptions, and still suffer from key problems that their audiences were prepared to overlook.

    Importantly ASM2 wasn’t a box office failure it was a promotional failure. Sony spent too much trying to make it bigger than it should be.

    B&R is the real point to consider. Batman fans are uniquely touchy and that ‘it must be serious and not at all camp’ fear should not be allowed to set the agenda for the entire line. It shouldn’t have set the agenda for Batman either but WB are so scared of fans.

    Try telling MCU fans that the movies should be more serious or even less camp. By the original definition superheroes are inherently camp. Even Batman. Even Miller is inherently camp.
    Schumacher was hired to make Batman more colorful and kid friendly to market toys and if you look at the costume changes and tons of vehicles in Batman and Robin you can see while overall esthetic choices were Schumacher he was also doing exactly what WB wanted at the time to do.

    Batman Forever and Batman and Robin are at the bottom of my Batman film rankings but Schumacher deserves to be defended.

  12. #42
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Does Warner Brothers need a subsidiary studio like Marvel Studios is a subsidiary of Disney?

    Why Disney has never looked as messy, unplanned or as scattered as Warner Brothers or FOX was because Disney had just one studio that made only marvel movies for Disney. Warner brothers has to juggle DC along with Harry Potter, IT and whatever franchises they own. Until they get a DC film subsidiary, they will never be smooth or as planned out as Marvel.

    Marvel studios makes things look easy when they only have to worry about their own properties only instead of worrying about Pixar, star wars, pirates of the Caribbean.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member chamber-music's Avatar
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    According trades like the Hollywood Reporter WB has supposedly had a number of execs battling for position over the years which has caused some instability.


    Marvel and Pixar don't always make great movies but they have built up enough goodwill with general audiences that people are willing to give many their films a chance.

    Disney has done this with Marvel and Pixar by keeping a least a certain level of quality in which most people feel they will enjoy seeing what comes from these studio sub divisions.

    I think right now DC films have a similar hit or miss reputation as the Fox X-Men films. General audiences are more cautious and judge each film by its own merit. If the DC films can string together a run of films as widely enjoyed as Marvel or Pixar consistently then they will earn general audiences trust and loyalty.

    We are getting a sequel to Suicide Squad because it made a ton of money, the cast are contracted for sequels and they hope Gunn as director will win over people who felt the first movie was flawed but liked the cast/concept.

    We aren't getting direct sequels to Green Lantern or Justice League because those movies lost money and the studio didn't see a potential sequel as financially viable in the near future. These Execs have shareholders and chairmen to answer to, they can't green light sequels to films that don't turn a profit.

    Affleck is gone and is being replaced as Batman. The studio doesn't want to hire Cavill for more Superman films at the moment. Aquaman and Wonder Woman had profitable and popular solo films which are getting sequels.
    Last edited by chamber-music; 07-31-2019 at 02:00 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamber-music View Post
    According trades like the Hollywood Reporter WB has supposedly had a number of execs battling for position over the years which has caused some instability.


    Marvel and Pixar don't always make great movies but they have built up enough goodwill with general audiences that people are willing to give many their films a chance.

    Disney has done this with Marvel and Pixar by keeping a least a certain level of quality in which most people feel they will enjoy seeing what comes from these studio sub divisions.

    I think right now DC films have a similar hot or miss reputation as the Fox X-Men films. General audiences are more cautious and judge each film by its own merit. If the DC films can string together a run of films as widely enjoyed as Marvel or Pixar consistently then they will earn general audiences trust and loyalty.

    We are getting a sequel to Suicide Squad because it made a ton of money, the cast are contracted for sequels and they hope Gunn as director will win over people who felt the first movie was flawed but liked the cast/concept.

    We aren't getting direct sequels to Green Lantern or Justice League because those movies lost money and the studio didn't see a potential sequel as financially viable in the near future. These Execs have shareholders and chairmen to answer to, they can't green light sequels to films that don't turn a profit.

    Affleck is gone and is being replaced as Batman. The studio doesn't want to hire Cavill for more Superman films at the moment. Aquaman and Wonder Woman had profitable and popular solo films which are getting sequels.
    You hit the nail on the head!

    DC's biggest problem has and will always be Warner Brothers. WB has always had quality issues when it comes to their products because of executive meddling (Remember Pan anyone?). Disney mostly buys successful companies like Pixar and Marvel and typically leaves them alone creatively as long as their products still cater to their targeted demographic other than that Disney doesn't interfere.

    WB on the other hand (dear lord!). Whether you are a DC fan or not you have to admit that before the MCU, DC easily had the more desirable IP and in general was more universally popular. Give Disney DC IP, (Please dont!) and see how much more structured and consistent their products are.

  15. #45
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Structured and consistent is all about the Disney. And its because of their "executive meddling." I'd suggest that WB is just bad at it, and tends to allow their creators a little too much free reign.

    The Harry Potter series bears this out, with all of its changes in tone over the years.
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