DC/WB New Direction

[ComicJunkie21]

First off we all know that Marvel has dominated the comicbook movie competition no question. DC tried to compete but fell flat and now Marvel is the undisputed winner at the box office. As a primarily DC fan I was annoyed at DC/WB abysmal attempts but now seeing what their new strategic direction is, I think it has worked out for the best.

The executives from WB have stated that they are no longer going to mimic Marvel and instead try to dominate areas where Disney and Marvel don't do well or have no presence at:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...eter-roth/amp/

After stating this their upcoming slate of films and actions back up their statement. For example they hire horror film executive to oversee dc films:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety...202652878/amp/

Also their next 3 films to be released are all Rated R: The Kitchen, Joker, and Birds of Prey. All three of which are having good reactions from critics and test screenings. Joker even has Oscar buzz surrounding it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ind...202161237/amp/

It looks like both Marvel and DC/WB will be able to properly coexist with this new strategy and create really good competition too. While I think Marvel will still rule the box office because of family friendly appeal that equates to a larger audience, DC films will be known for a more mature tone that will equate to higher critical praise and quality. In short kids probably won't be able to watch DC films which overall will always put dc behind at the box office. For Marvel, the only downside will be that when they do try to make serious movies like Logan ( very good film) it will be more scrutinized similar to how dc is scrutinized for their Marvel like films because they aren't as good as the company who specializes with their formula.

Overall, I like that DC failed and has to go a different direction that isn't meant to please general audiences because I think it will give dc fans better quality with less limits in storylines and allow for riskier material like in the comics. To be honest I hope we get an R-Rated Batman movie from Matt Reeves just so there's room to show how brutal and ruthless Batman really is.

What are your thoughts on WB/DC new strategy?

[JKtheMac]

You say there is a strategy, some of those links suggest a strategy, but I have no idea what that strategy is. It doesn’t look clear to me.

How does hiring a horror executive and aiming movies at an older audience differ from the grimdark criticism that they have always had aimed at them even when successful?

[ComicJunkie21]

You say there is a strategy, some of those links suggest a strategy, but I have no idea what that strategy is. It doesn’t look clear to me.

How does hiring a horror executive and aiming movies at an older audience differ from the grimdark criticism that they have always had aimed at them even when successful?

The strategy is to go in creative directions and areas where Marvel and Disney do not have a presence in or just don't do well. Marvel and Disney are more focused on general family friendly content as it yields the highest returns typically. By taking their movies into a direction that aims at a different audience possibly allows for the grimdark complaints to stop because it's not meant to be family friendly. I think the reason for the complaints is because most people don't want to take their kids to see a dark gritty film however they would like to watch one themselves.

Hiring the horror film executive that has been highly successful shows that they are completely embracing a strategy that does not try to disguise its films as being a family friendly story that leaves both family friendly and mature audiences disappointed. Personally after researching what Walter has done with the horror film universe with New Line Cinema (subset of WB), I'm excited because he has already shown that he cares more about storylines and quality over big action scenes by lowering the budgets of a lot of films and by wiping the slate of movies that were supposed to come out to focus on making the first few movies good.

[AJBopp]

A curious strategy after Wonder Woman and Aquaman proved they can compete perfectly well kn the Marvel/Disney space.

I hope it works for them. I'm all for variations i the superhero genre. I think care needs to be taken with the properties chosen to have represented in this space. Its already been demonstrated Superman doesn't work well here. I disagree with the move toward R rating. Cursing, blood and nudity doesn't make for a mature tone, just a movie inappropriate for kids. It also doesn't imply higher quality. A bad PG-13 movie doesn't raise its quality because it adds 5 f-bombs and boobs, but it does raise the rating. Also, a good R rated movie doesn't lower its quality because it cuts those things.

This all may turn out to be a good thing, but it smacks more of FOX execs' nonsense rules against giants than a sound business approach to me

[Comic-Reader Lad]

I don't think there's a new direction. I just think there's an expanded direction.

There will be PG-13 stuff like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Adam, and highly likely, Batman. Hopefully, they can see their way clear to doing another Superman movie with Henry Cavill.

Then, there will be R-rated stuff like Joker, Birds of Prey, etc.

The way to compete with Marvel is, yes, do things that Marvel isn't doing, but Warners doesn't have to abandon the lucrative PG-13 market to do so.

The key is being first to market. Avengers was first to market with a team movie, so that set the tone. Justice League was just inept by comparison. Actually, it was inept without comparing it to Avengers.

However, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were first to market with a female-led film and one set in Atlantis. If Wonder Woman came out after Captain Marvel, I don't know if it would have been such an event as it was.

Likewise, if Marvel had gotten a Sub-Mariner movie in theaters before Aquaman, I think that would have made Aquaman redundant, and AM would have floundered.

If you're going to do a magic-based DC movie, don't do Dr. Fate because it might seem too similar to Dr. Strange. Make a Zatanna flick instead.

Take DC properties that have no direct analog to something at Marvel and do those movies. Also, do more risky movies at a lower budget and set it up through New Line. Challengers of the Unknown and Sea Devils could be good New Line flicks. Definitely do Challs before Marvel does Fantastic Four.

And, I've said this in other threads, do an annual Brave and the Bold team up movie to get lots of DC characters out there who might not be able to support a solo flick. Brave and the Bold: Green Arrow and Black Canary, Brave and the Bold: Atom and Hawkman, Brave and the Bold: Robin and Batgirl, etc.

Keep all the movies within the same universe so you can do references and crossovers, but don't have them all tell the same story like the Infinity Saga.

[XPac]

I don't think there's a new direction. I just think there's an expanded direction.

There will be PG-13 stuff like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Adam, and highly likely, Batman. Hopefully, they can see their way clear to doing another Superman movie with Henry Cavill.

Then, there will be R-rated stuff like Joker, Birds of Prey, etc.

The way to compete with Marvel is, yes, do things that Marvel isn't doing, but Warners doesn't have to abandon the lucrative PG-13 market to do so.

The key is being first to market. Avengers was first to market with a team movie, so that set the tone. Justice League was just inept by comparison. Actually, it was inept without comparing it to Avengers.

However, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were first to market with a female-led film and one set in Atlantis. If Wonder Woman came out after Captain Marvel, I don't know if it would have been such an event as it was.

Likewise, if Marvel had gotten a Sub-Mariner movie in theaters before Aquaman, I think that would have made Aquaman redundant, and AM would have floundered.

If you're going to do a magic-based DC movie, don't do Dr. Fate because it might seem too similar to Dr. Strange. Make a Zatanna flick instead.

Take DC properties that have no direct analog to something at Marvel and do those movies. Also, do more risky movies at a lower budget and set it up through New Line. Challengers of the Unknown and Sea Devils could be good New Line flicks. Definitely do Challs before Marvel does Fantastic Four.

And, I've said this in other threads, do an annual Brave and the Bold team up movie to get lots of DC characters out there who might not be able to support a solo flick. Brave and the Bold: Green Arrow and Black Canary, Brave and the Bold: Atom and Hawkman, Brave and the Bold: Robin and Batgirl, etc.

Keep all the movies within the same universe so you can do references and crossovers, but don't have them all tell the same story like the Infinity Saga.

Yeah, DC made a billion dollars off of Aquaman so I think they realize there is still money to be had by competing for the same space as marvel. It's not like there isn't room for it. For a time Fox, Sony, and WB were competing with Marvel and the super hero genre still thrived.

[ComicJunkie21]

I don't think there's a new direction. I just think there's an expanded direction.

There will be PG-13 stuff like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam, Black Adam, and highly likely, Batman. Hopefully, they can see their way clear to doing another Superman movie with Henry Cavill.

Then, there will be R-rated stuff like Joker, Birds of Prey, etc.

The way to compete with Marvel is, yes, do things that Marvel isn't doing, but Warners doesn't have to abandon the lucrative PG-13 market to do so.

The key is being first to market. Avengers was first to market with a team movie, so that set the tone. Justice League was just inept by comparison. Actually, it was inept without comparing it to Avengers.

However, Wonder Woman and Aquaman were first to market with a female-led film and one set in Atlantis. If Wonder Woman came out after Captain Marvel, I don't know if it would have been such an event as it was.

Likewise, if Marvel had gotten a Sub-Mariner movie in theaters before Aquaman, I think that would have made Aquaman redundant, and AM would have floundered.

If you're going to do a magic-based DC movie, don't do Dr. Fate because it might seem too similar to Dr. Strange. Make a Zatanna flick instead.

Take DC properties that have no direct analog to something at Marvel and do those movies. Also, do more risky movies at a lower budget and set it up through New Line. Challengers of the Unknown and Sea Devils could be good New Line flicks. Definitely do Challs before Marvel does Fantastic Four.

And, I've said this in other threads, do an annual Brave and the Bold team up movie to get lots of DC characters out there who might not be able to support a solo flick. Brave and the Bold: Green Arrow and Black Canary, Brave and the Bold: Atom and Hawkman, Brave and the Bold: Robin and Batgirl, etc.

Keep all the movies within the same universe so you can do references and crossovers, but don't have them all tell the same story like the Infinity Saga.

I agree that the films such as wonder woman, aquaman, and shazam will continue to be pg-13 as they started that way and would be a complete alienation of the family friendly audience that supported them but I disagree with the opinion on first to market. I think WW was successful because she is the most iconic female character ever and in my opinion her first movie in years was always going to do well. I think Captain Marvel was always going to be an uphill battle for Marvel. Also, from what I'm seeing DC/WB realize their strength as well with their content is the villains and antiheroes, which is what they are trying to play up to help differentiate them, which is what I also think is contributing to the more mature tone that we are starting to see.

I thought they should've gone the route of doing character properties that Marvel hasn't yet too but I understand why they haven't at this time because it would still be compared to a Marvel film, if it still contains some lighter elements. Right now, The position DC/WB has put themselves in they need a clear differentiator of what they offer compared to what Marvel offers. As far as crossovers go, I think the only one we can hope for at this time is a flashpoint movie just because the most of the main superheroes in that storyline are currently successful WW, Aquaman, Shazam, and Superman. Otherwise I think DC/WB are going to be too scared to do crossovers because of the JL flop. I think for most DC films we'll get a trilogy but that's about it.

[ComicJunkie21]

A curious strategy after Wonder Woman and Aquaman proved they can compete perfectly well kn the Marvel/Disney space.

I hope it works for them. I'm all for variations i the superhero genre. I think care needs to be taken with the properties chosen to have represented in this space. Its already been demonstrated Superman doesn't work well here. I disagree with the move toward R rating. Cursing, blood and nudity doesn't make for a mature tone, just a movie inappropriate for kids. It also doesn't imply higher quality. A bad PG-13 movie doesn't raise its quality because it adds 5 f-bombs and boobs, but it does raise the rating. Also, a good R rated movie doesn't lower its quality because it cuts those things.

This all may turn out to be a good thing, but it smacks more of FOX execs' nonsense rules against giants than a sound business approach to me

Even though Aquaman made over a billion, it's hard to say if it was because of the quality of the movie or because of the appeal of Jason Momoa. I don't think DC/WB knows either to be honest. Also even with the success the film was compared heavily to Thor (I truly don't understand why) which did hurt the film critic wise. So for DC, at least in the short term, it's a safer move to go into an area where you will be compared to your competitors less and form your own identity.

I like the move towards a R-Rating because sometimes a film that gets a pg-13 rating results in watered down content that doesn't please anyone. This shouldn't be the case but it does seem that it stifles directors sometimes.

[Godzilla2099]

WB/DC's problem isn't the casting, its their writers/creative team.

Cavil is the perfect Superman today. The first flight scene is one of my favorite super hero moments of all time.

Rebooting something over and over doesn't work and its flat out lazy writing.

[ComicJunkie21]

WB/DC's problem isn't the casting, its their writers/creative team.

Cavil is the perfect Superman today. The first flight scene is one of my favorite super hero moments of all time.

Rebooting something over and over doesn't work and its flat out lazy writing.

I understand the frustration with rebooting (we are about to be on our 6th batman which is ridiculous). But I think they are staying away from doing what Marvel has accomplished which is the connected universe piece. I like elseworld tales from DC a lot and wish we would see more of that. I don't see an issue with doing a trilogy and moving on to the next character considering that there are over 200 heroes in DC's freaking catalog that they can do. When you throw villian into that count its even bigger. Marvel spoiled all of us in regards to how a connected universe can be done but I don't think we should get mad that their competitor is deciding not to go that route. It's going to be interesting once the Joker and Batman films come out because if both are really good everyone will throw a fit when DC/WB won't put them in the same film (which they already said they aren't doing).

[JKtheMac]

The strategy is to go in creative directions and areas where Marvel and Disney do not have a presence in or just don't do well. Marvel and Disney are more focused on general family friendly content as it yields the highest returns typically. By taking their movies into a direction that aims at a different audience possibly allows for the grimdark complaints to stop because it's not meant to be family friendly. I think the reason for the complaints is because most people don't want to take their kids to see a dark gritty film however they would like to watch one themselves.

Hiring the horror film executive that has been highly successful shows that they are completely embracing a strategy that does not try to disguise its films as being a family friendly story that leaves both family friendly and mature audiences disappointed. Personally after researching what Walter has done with the horror film universe with New Line Cinema (subset of WB), I'm excited because he has already shown that he cares more about storylines and quality over big action scenes by lowering the budgets of a lot of films and by wiping the slate of movies that were supposed to come out to focus on making the first few movies good.

Comic book movies about superheroes that are not meant to be family friendly? That’s a recipe for disaster. One or two in a broader mix maybe. Not a whole strategy.

I was actually considering Birds of Prey as a potential cinema trip. The first DC movie I have spent cash on since I was burned with The Batman trilogy, but if it’s aimed at a more adult audience I won’t be there. Even Logan was a bit of a problem for me.

[AJBopp]

I like the move towards a R-Rating because sometimes a film that gets a pg-13 rating results in watered down content that doesn't please anyone. This shouldn't be the case but it does seem that it stifles directors sometimes.

It's important to remember that R ratings only ever occur because of the inclusion of specific words in the script or specific imagery in the cinematography. Never because of the maturity of the story.

[Midvillian1322]

It's important to remember that R ratings only ever occur because of the inclusion of specific words in the script or specific imagery in the cinematography. Never because of the maturity of the story.

This is true it depends on the story. Deadpool is something people say can only work rated r all the time but in the comics he has a long history of working in PG 13 structure. They just have to get more creative with his language. Yea Ryan Reynolds says "Fu** Nugget" and everyone laughs but you can have him say funny crazy things without cussing. Or you bleep it out and have him get meta about being bleeped out. The Deadpool video game had a funny Fourth wall breaking joke with a black Blur bar over Wade's junk. Where he then makes the bar long and says that's more like it. But I will say Certain character lend themselves better to having more freedom. Deadpool can work either way but is more suited for rated R. Blade aswell. Anyway a R rating isnt neccessary but it help some characters. Logan was all the better for it though the cussing and Gore didnt make the movie buy it added to it. Some characters it just makes sense. A Joker Solo film makes sense aswell.

Anyway Deadpool was a bad example because I know your not a fan.

[ComicJunkie21]

Comic book movies about superheroes that are not meant to be family friendly? That’s a recipe for disaster. One or two in a broader mix maybe. Not a whole strategy.

I was actually considering Birds of Prey as a potential cinema trip. The first DC movie I have spent cash on since I was burned with The Batman trilogy, but if it’s aimed at a more adult audience I won’t be there. Even Logan was a bit of a problem for me.

Birds of Prey is a rated R movie and from the early reactions is not family friendly by any means.

[XPac]

Even though Aquaman made over a billion, it's hard to say if it was because of the quality of the movie or because of the appeal of Jason Momoa. I don't think DC/WB knows either to be honest. Also even with the success the film was compared heavily to Thor (I truly don't understand why) which did hurt the film critic wise. So for DC, at least in the short term, it's a safer move to go into an area where you will be compared to your competitors less and form your own identity.

I like the move towards a R-Rating because sometimes a film that gets a pg-13 rating results in watered down content that doesn't please anyone. This shouldn't be the case but it does seem that it stifles directors sometimes.

Given how badly Momoa's Conan movie bombed, it's not THAT hard to say it was because of the movie over the appeal of Jason Momoa.