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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default Did Martha Wayne have any birth family prior to COIE?

    I understand that earlier on there were relatives without last names that were later said to be Waynes (Philip and Agatha). And, of course, there was Silas. Later, post-COIE Philip got moved to the Kane side, and Nathan and Jacob added. I still don't know who Bette's dad is. I remember cousin Jane and her baby, but not what side of family she was from.

    But were there any siblings or parents or cousins or whatnot from Martha's side of the family mentioned prior to Crisis?

    Also, when did Martha get the maiden name Kane?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I understand that earlier on there were relatives without last names that were later said to be Waynes (Philip and Agatha). And, of course, there was Silas. Later, post-COIE Philip got moved to the Kane side, and Nathan and Jacob added. I still don't know who Bette's dad is. I remember cousin Jane and her baby, but not what side of family she was from.
    Philipp didn't exists in post crisis, he was reindroduced in the new 52.
    And I'm not sure if Nathan and Jacob were said to be Marthas Brothers pre Flashpoint (and they were anyway only introduced after Morrison took over, and started to massively retcon stuff into pre COIE continuity).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    But were there any siblings or parents or cousins or whatnot from Martha's side of the family mentioned prior to Crisis?
    No all that had a last name were afaik Waynes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Also, when did Martha get the maiden name Kane?
    Accordig to the DC wikia in Batman: Family Vol 1 #1 in 2002.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Philipp didn't exists in post crisis, he was reindroduced in the new 52.
    Oh, my bad. Thanks for the info. Nathan doesn't have a wiki entry - do we know anything about him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Accordig to the DC wikia in Batman: Family Vol 1 #1 in 2002.
    Wow, that's later than I would have expected. I'd have taken a wild guess at the early post-Crisis years. I suppose, though, it's the sort of thing that would never be undone now. I don't mind the name at all, it's just I sort of mildly prefer Kate unrelated to Bruce.

    EDIT: my sister saw this and texted me to tell me the wiki was wrong. It was used in Batman Secret Files from 1997, a in-universe text article about the Wayne Family "Upon the Shoulders of Giants: The Men Behind Gotham." Looked it up and it said "Wayne even found time to woo and win the lovely Martha Kane, sole heir to the Kane Chemical fortune and fellow Bristol neighbor." Sole heir. She's gained a lot family since then. Can't swear that was first instance, though.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-29-2019 at 07:32 AM.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    These questions have been interesting to me since I began to take more of a look at Bette Kane, the elusive 'Bat-girl', Flamebird etc. My head canon says that Bette's father is Jake's brother and possibly a twin of Jake, as twins run in families (Kate and Alice). But we've gotten no on panel confirm of any sort.

    Bette is a cypher of a Kane. If Silver Age is possibly canon, we know that Kathy Kane/Webb was her aunt by marriage and instrumental in her Bat girl role. That is about it.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Bette is a cypher of a Kane. If Silver Age is possibly canon, we know that Kathy Kane/Webb was her aunt by marriage and instrumental in her Bat girl role. That is about it.
    And, I think (memory may be tricking me), she comments on Aunt Kathy being super-rich, indicating to me that her family is less-rich.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Well there could be that.

    In some ways, Bette's silver age appearances do sort of make her seem naïve, in that sense. On the other hand some children (head canon says she was 11 or 12 at that time) just say stuff, in a comparative manner to their own circumstances. In my family my sister in law always said that her mother's cakes, etc were more ____, without a direct comparsion to my mom, but it was a snark.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    I would read any Batman/related if they had more backstory or history on the Waynes and Kanes and how it works out. Between Crisis-es etc, the canon and relationships have changed.

    It would be more seemingly probably that Kate and Bette are 2nd cousins to Bruce, but now it would be too hard to rework that.

    Bruce's mom Martha, would have to be a first cousin to Jake, and/or un-named father of Bette.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Oh, my bad. Thanks for the info. Nathan doesn't have a wiki entry - do we know anything about him?
    It seems at least that he was ret conned in by Morrison and was not mentioned in the silver age.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    To me, that was a good retcon. In the Silver Age, the Kane family was not a 'thing' yet. So Kathy Kane was a sort of homage to Kane, the creator of Batman.

    No relationship to 'Aunt Kathy' was ever mentioned until Morrison, pretty sure, you're right on that.

    My head hurts when I try to figure/reconfigure this family and their relationships.

    I just want them to make more sense

    and I want Kate and Bette to be less than 1st cousin to Bruce.

    oh well.

  11. #11
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    And, I think (memory may be tricking me), she comments on Aunt Kathy being super-rich, indicating to me that her family is less-rich.
    I think she's probably normal rich compared to Bruce Wayne-level rich.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think she's probably normal rich compared to Bruce Wayne-level rich.
    Back then Bruce wasn't that rich.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Back then Bruce wasn't that rich.
    Absolutely true. Bruce's relative wealth has skyrocketed since the old days.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Well, I admit to not reading much of Batman, but I did years ago and I also saw the relatively recent 'Gates of Gotham' ? which went back more than a generation to show the beginning of the City and what roles both the Waynes and Kanes had there.

    So, to me, it seems that retcon was about creating the idea of a Dynasty type rivalry.

    There is gold in the Kane mine, and not just with Martha or any 'cousin' issues between others and Bruce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    Well there could be that.

    In some ways, Bette's silver age appearances do sort of make her seem naïve, in that sense. On the other hand some children (head canon says she was 11 or 12 at that time) just say stuff, in a comparative manner to their own circumstances. In my family my sister in law always said that her mother's cakes, etc were more ____, without a direct comparsion to my mom, auto clicker word unscramblerbut it was a snark.
    These questions have been interesting to me since I began to take more of a look at Bette Kane, the elusive 'Bat-girl', Flamebird etc. My head canon says that Bette's father is Jake's brother and possibly a twin of Jake, as twins run in families (Kate and Alice). But we've gotten no on panel confirm of any sort.
    Last edited by amektura; 08-05-2019 at 12:31 PM.

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