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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else here who doesn't like The Judas Contract (comic storyline)?

    This speaks specifically to the comic book version. I was just disinterested. I deeply dislike how Slade was treated as not the bad guy after. Terra did nothing for me except occasionally annoy. I liked Joey, after he was introduced, but the actual Titans-are-infiltrated storyline just did nothing for me. Maybe because I read it many years later, and knew how it would end before starting. I didn't hate it or anything (well, except the post-event treatment of Slade), but it's very "meh" to me. And yet, since it's been adapted and revisited over and over again, I can only assume it's much beloved.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-24-2019 at 01:43 PM.

  2. #2
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    It's less that the Judas Contract is beloved and more that its the story that made the franchise famous. A lot of comic writers are trying to recapture that 'magic'(despite the Judas Contract never being good) and constantly rehash the traitor storyline.It's also one of the few NTT storylines(besides Trgon) that can be easily adapted for animation. The NTT(especially post Judas Contract)had a lot of bad stories.

    The original sin of the Titans franchise was Wolfman trying to justify Slade's antics and I don't think the franchise has recovered since then.

    The only adaption of the Judas Contract that was worthwhile is the one from the 2003 cartoon. YJ's version might be better depending on how things play out.

  3. #3
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    I read it as it was coming out. I have to admit I liked the dynamic between Terra and Gar. Even though I knew she was working with Slade, I thought the Titans would win her over in the end. It's what Wolfman and Perez expected readers to think.

    It was only in the finale that I realized that Terra was insane and she really had been pretending with the Titans all this time. They weren't winning her over, she was playing them like a violin. That scene of Gar kneeling over her dead body did it for me. Even though you only saw him from behind, you knew he was bawling his eyes out. As hateful as she was, I must admit I missed her presence when it was over.

    Maybe I'm a sucker (Jonas Bros), but I fell for it hook line and sinker. I expected Terra to reform and join the Titans in the end. And I was blown away when it didn't happen.

  4. #4
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    I read it as it was coming out. I have to admit I liked the dynamic between Terra and Gar. Even though I knew she was working with Slade, I thought the Titans would win her over in the end. It's what Wolfman and Perez expected readers to think.

    It was only in the finale that I realized that Terra was insane and she really had been pretending with the Titans all this time. They weren't winning her over, she was playing them like a violin. That scene of Gar kneeling over her dead body did it for me. Even though you only saw him from behind, you knew he was bawling his eyes out. As hateful as she was, I must admit I missed her presence when it was over.

    Maybe I'm a sucker (Jonas Bros), but I fell for it hook line and sinker. I expected Terra to reform and join the Titans in the end. And I was blown away when it didn't happen.
    It's often difficult for those of us who picked each issue off the stands to discuss a decades old story with people who read the trade and are thinking about it in terms of today's works. "Judas Contract" was BIG and it was SHOCKING and it was something those of us who read comics at the time had never seen before. Now if you wait 35 years to see if something better comes along, that's your choice. But for the time, very little challenge Judas Contract for awesomeness.

  5. #5
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Maybe because I read it many years later, and knew how it would end before starting. I didn't hate it or anything (well, except the post-event treatment of Slade), but it's very "meh" to me. And yet, since it's been adapted and revisited over and over again, I can only assume it's much beloved.
    I guess that's it. It's one of those "you had to be there" stories.

    And then it was redone so much that it lost it's mojo.
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  6. #6

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    I was there, and it was great.

    I can understand that the impact is lost because the story is heavily dependent on surprise and playing with the readers' expectations, and there are no surprises now.

    Also, Terra was introduced a year before the Judas Contract story, so if you're just reading the trade, then you are also missing out on the buildup of Terra's character, how she was related to Geo-Force of the Outsiders, and how this made it a big surprise when she was revealed to be a bad guy all along.

    In contrast, the trades for the Dark Phoenix story and Great Darkness Saga can be read without any preceding material to set things up, so maybe that's why they provide a more satisfying reading experience as a trade, but I can see if you're only reading Judas and meeting Terra for the first time when she turns traitor, then the shock isn't there because you didn't know her any other way.

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Also, Terra was introduced a year before the Judas Contract story, so if you're just reading the trade, then you are also missing out on the buildup of Terra's character, how she was related to Geo-Force of the Outsiders, and how this made it a big surprise when she was revealed to be a bad guy all along.
    No, I started with NTT #1 and read up until a few issues after the team changeup after Joey was killed. Never read TPB form. Though I acknowledge, I couldn't be surprised, because I read it 30 years later. So I never thought Terra was good or would turn it around - I recognized her manipulation for what it was, because I knew the ending. There were a few times I thought she was doing quite a good job. Other times I thought she let too much of herself show. But it's easy to say that when you're looking at it all in hindsight.

    Also, I admit, I like triumphant endings and stories that make me smile so events (not that Judas Contract is really an event - I mean , it's not it's mini with crossovers, etc.) are usually mixed on happiness at best, with far more leaning to death and depressing events than happy ones. It was sort of funny to me how I could track my enjoyment of Invasion! to whether the good guys were winning or losing (really enjoyed the Daily Planet tie-in issue). I'm just that easy to please, I guess. Not that I don't like any stories where bad things happen (even to heroes), of course. It's just for me, the point is the good guys winning and coming out on the other side.

  8. #8
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The only adaption of the Judas Contract that was worthwhile is the one from the 2003 cartoon. YJ's version might be better depending on how things play out.
    I thought the animated film adaption was pretty good too .

  9. #9
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    Looking back now, its main lasting legacy was Dick Grayson making the transition from Robin to Nightwing.

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  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Like The Great Darkness Saga, this story isn’t as good if you already know the reveal. Terra being an agent of Deathstroke was probably a pretty big shock to the readers at the time, which made it a classic. Now we know the ending before we start reading. I think the overall plot is still great but I agree that it’s been executed better on the Teen Titans show and in the animated film. Those versions were able to keep what worked and cut out what didn’t.

  11. #11
    Incredible Member cgh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Like The Great Darkness Saga, this story isn’t as good if you already know the reveal. Terra being an agent of Deathstroke was probably a pretty big shock to the readers at the time, which made it a classic. Now we know the ending before we start reading.
    For sure, it was a massive shock at the time. Teenaged me (the intended audience) was blown away.

    The Judas Contract, like the other groundbreaking superhero comics of the time that featured moral conflict (eg the Dark Phoenix saga and the Wolverine mini) need to be viewed in historical context. Originality is everything and these stories cracked the mold like few others. Modern readers are not going to have the same experience and really aren't the intended audience.

  12. #12
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    The first time I read it, I thought it was a really well crafted story, with some incredible art. It must have been 4 years ago give or take. 2 years ago I read what came before and re read the whole arc and I liked it even more. I consider it some of the finest material ever done, even when I already knew the twist and basically everything that was going to happen. I agree that the following arc with Deathstroke tried too hard to redeem him and, while I like it, it's beneath what came before and I prefer a Slade Wilson that's more of a bastard, who used Terra, a young girl that, as evil as she might have been, is still a victim of Deathstroke
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  13. #13
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Like much of the work produced by the team of Wolfman/Perez, THE JUDAS CONTRACT is deeply steeped in the cultural sensibilities of its time (the 1980s). THE NEW TEEN TITANS of the 80s was very much the John Hughes "Brat Pack" analogue from the DC superhero set.

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  14. #14
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    Terra was a super popular member at the time. Cool Power, Great Look, well integrated into the team and DCU etc. Everyone expected her to reform at the end. And she didn't. It's a story you have to have been there for at the time and have been around the 3 years she was there in the team. (Really, even by today's standards, what comic sets up and builds a 3 year storyline? Writers are never around that long and most things are tied up by the end of the trade)

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Terra was a super popular member at the time. Cool Power, Great Look, well integrated into the team and DCU etc. Everyone expected her to reform at the end. And she didn't.
    I think I'd actively disliked it if I was around during original run, then. It's not about what's objectively good (or shocking). Just personal preference. I don't like depressing stories, in general, and if I'd liked the character, I'd probably have found it depressing. Don't know that I would have liked her, honestly, though can't swear I wouldn't have. Though I do think I'd have expected her to reform back then. Now, traitors are a dime a dozen in Titans, but back then, not (though, admittedly, my team-comic experience of the era is tied to JLA and a little bit of X-Men).

    But like I said, my comment wasn't really about if it was goundbreaking, well-written, objectively good, etc. Just personal enjoyment. There are several highly-lauded stories that I don't enjoy because they just aren't my particular taste.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-25-2019 at 08:47 AM.

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