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  1. #1

    Question Who remembers Secret Wars?

    I understand that, because of the whole cosmic retcon, Miles Morales does not remember the Ultimate universe, and thinks that he had always lived in 616. That causes a lot of inconsistencies, plot holes and things that make little sense, but let's leave them aside for now. My questions are:
    * Does Miles Morales remember the Secret Wars? Does he remember his intervention in the New York domain?
    * Who else remembers Secret Wars? Does Doom remember it? Do the members of Doom's royal court (Strange, Sue Storm, Valeria, etc) remember the things they did under his rule? Do the Cabal and the heroes from the other ship remember it?
    * Even more, the end of Secret Wars go back to the begining event of New Avengers, this time without the incursions. Does the retcon include Hickman's own runs in New Avengers and Avengers as well? Do the heroes remember the incursions, and the Illuminati destroying worlds, or did that whole thing been erased from history by the outcome of Secret Wars?

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    * Who else remembers Secret Wars? Does Doom remember it? Do the members of Doom's royal court (Strange, Sue Storm, Valeria, etc) remember the things they did under his rule?
    Doom's royal court outside of Dr Strange were not "our" Sue, Valeria, ect. They were althernate dimension.

    T'challa explicitly remembers everything. He has stated it more than once. Including using the reality gem to bring it all back.

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  3. #3
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    I understand that, because of the whole cosmic retcon, Miles Morales does not remember the Ultimate universe, and thinks that he had always lived in 616. That causes a lot of inconsistencies, plot holes and things that make little sense, but let's leave them aside for now. My questions are:
    * Does Miles Morales remember the Secret Wars? Does he remember his intervention in the New York domain?
    * Who else remembers Secret Wars? Does Doom remember it? Do the members of Doom's royal court (Strange, Sue Storm, Valeria, etc) remember the things they did under his rule? Do the Cabal and the heroes from the other ship remember it?
    * Even more, the end of Secret Wars go back to the begining event of New Avengers, this time without the incursions. Does the retcon include Hickman's own runs in New Avengers and Avengers as well? Do the heroes remember the incursions, and the Illuminati destroying worlds, or did that whole thing been erased from history by the outcome of Secret Wars?
    I think the only people who actually remember Secret Wars were the people on the Life Rafts (and Doom of course). Everyone else was basically dead. We saw other versions of those characters, but not the 616 versions. As far as everyone else was concerned the last incursion was stopped by some sort of sacrifice by Reed Richards and the future foudnation. Everything up to that did happen and everyone remembers it.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    I think only the Time Runs Out arc was rolled back, and everything before that, and the Last Days arcs in the various solo books, were not. So yeah, they remember the Incursions, but they think the Fantastic Four solved them.

    The Sue and Val in Doom's court were recreations (this Val was Doom's daughter, not Reed's), not the originals, so no, they don't have the memories. Only Reed remembers, of the F4, since he was on the Liferaft. Miles does in fact remember Ultimate as stated in Spider-Men II. When he told Gwenpool he didn't remember in her book, he was lying.

  5. #5

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    What about Captain America? He was among the Illuminati, they mindwiped him to destroy worlds if needed without his speeches, but he eventually remembered it and goes after them, blaming them for the destruction of other worlds. Nowadays, they are just partners in the Avengers again. What caused him to turn the page on that?

  6. #6
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    What about Captain America? He was among the Illuminati, they mindwiped him to destroy worlds if needed without his speeches, but he eventually remembered it and goes after them, blaming them for the destruction of other worlds. Nowadays, they are just partners in the Avengers again. What caused him to turn the page on that?
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Wasn't there some speculation on that in the early Ultimates (Post secret wars team that is) by Blue Marvel that he knew the universe had been re-created somehow?
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  8. #8
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    What about Captain America? He was among the Illuminati, they mindwiped him to destroy worlds if needed without his speeches, but he eventually remembered it and goes after them, blaming them for the destruction of other worlds. Nowadays, they are just partners in the Avengers again. What caused him to turn the page on that?
    Captain America remembers everything up to the final incursion. He just doesn't remember Secret Wars because he was dead, like almost everyone else in the multiverse. As a rule of thumb if you weren't Doom, the Molecule Man, or in one of the life rafts you didn't remember Secret Wars.

    As far as him turning a page of everything the Illuminati did... in the 8 month gap between Secret Wars and the All New All Different marvel era, I guess he just sort of got over it. At the end of Time Runs Out he was already actively working with the Illuminati, so it probably shouldn't be that surprising.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    That's not even our Cap, it's the Hydra imposter that conquered the world in Secret Empire.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    But if Stevil remembers, it implies that the original may have as well, since though he was created by a Cosmic cube, it did use the original as a template and he pretty much had all the same experiences as the original, just with some extra HYDRA in the mix. But I get from that panel that he remembers the Incursions, not Battleworld etc. Which lines up, everyone remembers the incursions, they just think they were saved at the last minute during the last one.

    Also, not all the Last Days arcs were completely undone. Silver Surfer and Loki both stepped outside of the universe when it was destroyed, and re-entered after it was recreated, so though they never went to Battleworld, because they were in the whitespace, they do know what happened to the old universe. (also certain Cosmic entities that were also in the whitespace, but I would have to double check the Silver Surfer issues to check who specifically, memories of it are hazy) But Loki still seems to have some knowledge of events on Battleworld as well, since he created an illusion of his Battleworld self in one issue. One of them, anyway.
    Last edited by Raye; 08-01-2019 at 02:29 PM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Doom's royal court outside of Dr Strange were not "our" Sue, Valeria, ect. They were althernate dimension.

    T'challa explicitly remembers everything. He has stated it more than once. Including using the reality gem to bring it all back.

    So who recreated everything, T’Challa with the reality gem, or Reed Richards with Beyonders power?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    But if Stevil remembers, it implies that the original may have as well, since though he was created by a Cosmic cube, it did use the original as a template and he pretty much had all the same experiences as the original, just with some extra HYDRA in the mix. But I get from that panel that he remembers the Incursions, not Battleworld etc. Which lines up, everyone remembers the incursions, they just think they were saved at the last minute during the last one.

    Also, not all the Last Days arcs were completely undone. Silver Surfer and Loki both stepped outside of the universe when it was destroyed, and re-entered after it was recreated, so though they never went to Battleworld, because they were in the whitespace, they do know what happened to the old universe. (also certain Cosmic entities that were also in the whitespace, but I would have to double check the Silver Surfer issues to check who specifically, memories of it are hazy) But Loki still seems to have some knowledge of events on Battleworld as well, since he created an illusion of his Battleworld self in one issue. One of them, anyway.
    Yeah, Loki and Surfer remember. Deadpool would probably remember if it wasn't for wiping his mind.

    I'm not sure Spiderman is supposed to remember.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So who recreated everything, T’Challa with the reality gem, or Reed Richards with Beyonders power?
    I don't think T'Challa recreated EVERYTHING. It is possible he re-created the 616 universe... in the LEAST he tweaked the timeline a little bit. But he didn't recreate the entire multiverse.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Doom's royal court outside of Dr Strange were not "our" Sue, Valeria, ect. They were althernate dimension.
    During Secret Wars, Dr. Strange remembers the world from before.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Captain America View Post
    During Secret Wars, Dr. Strange remembers the world from before.
    Yeah, that was 616 Strange. He had been with Doom and Owen Reece at the end and Doom made him his right hand, basically.

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