Fans more Interested in Old DC than Current DC?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I think it ultimately boils down to authenticity.

The Pre-52 DC Universe felt authentic because there was real character growth across the majority of books.

Batman had a son, Grayson became the Batman of Gotham, The Green Lantern Corp blew up in a real way, and the Flash family still existed even after the return of Barry.

Of course there were a myriad of editorial wankery when it came to big level decisions but in the end they never stuck.

Moreover, the characters "felt" like they truly knew one another and there was a real camaraderie; so with all of this, to me, it feels authentic and I would rather live in that DC Universe as to what it is now: a hodge podge of editorial mandates.

Ding, ding, ding!!!! This comment is basically the epitome of correctness.

[mikelmcknight72]

I don't see a problem with Black Panther beating the **** out of the clan. Its like Captain America beating up Nazi's. The KKK are obvious villains in this day in age.

I don't see a problem with BP doing that in response to actual violence. Offensive speech alone doesn't justify violence. Too many people in the real world seem to think that finding something offensive justifies them committing assault, theft, and other crimes.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

To me, Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams created the most classic Batman comics but no previous run has been as exciting to me as Tom King's run has. Snyder's/Tynion's JL is just about my favorite JL run. Only Alan Moore's Superman outdoes modern Superman comics for me. And only Johns wrote a better GL or Flash than what we're getting lately.

I actually find the current state of the Bat-books to be one of the main areas of concern. King's run for me has been very hit or miss, but even aside from that, we've had just one bad direction after another for the Bat-family over the past few years. For one, there's the whole Ric Grayson mess that's currently playing out in the Nightwing book, which has been dragged out for...way too long. The reasons for that, I won't even get into. Then, of course we have the complete disintegration of the Bat-family that occurred during the New 52, with Cass, Steph, and others being wiped from existence, and the failure of DC to restore them to the importance they enjoyed Pre-Flashpoint. Then, we have the mishandling of characters like Kate Kane and even Duke Thomas, who was supposed to be an great new addition to the Bat-family, but has failed to really find a decent place for himself IMO.

Also, I wouldn't say that Johns's Flash is the only other Flash run better than the current run simply because Mark Waid's Flash exists. However, I think you've hit on an important point: that there's a difference between just the basic quality of the writing and the quality of the direction. A title can be well-written but its direction can be unpalatable. For example, I can recognize that the current Flash run is well-written, but that doesn't mean I think the choices to a) completely dismantle the Flash family and b) turn Wally West into a killer who tried to cover up his offense by framing two (relatively) innocent people are wise ones.

I'm regularly bummed out by the romanticizing of old DC over contemporary DC. I won't ascribe motives to anyone that prefers the old comics but some here only ever post to complain that things aren't as good as they were in the "good old days."

I think its because we're all just genuinely concerned about the direction that DC is taking.

[Rrobin]

Also, regarding the above discussion, let's get real here. There is quite a difference between Black Panther vs. the KKK, and Black Panther and the Crew vs. the idea of White people moving into Harlem.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/in-black-pan...e-m-1796181847

And if you can't tell the difference let me spell it out for you.

Black Panther fights the KKK, a white supremacist hate group that has employed terrorism, which most reasonable people can agree is bad.

Black Panther fights gentrification. How is this supposed to make the regular potential white guy reader who happened to move to Harlem feel?

Most reasonable people also agree gentrification has negative consequences. Gentrification is not just about individuals moving in, the white guy who did shouldn’t feel attacked unless he’s the landlord or real estate company that’s going to move the prices up and redevelop it into generic town #122. Besides, the issue of gentrification is not directly race related, but rather class related, you seem to have a big misconception about that

Also, in the past, not everyone agreed the KKK was bad

Oh, and Gentrification has been criticized in older books too. It's not a new phenomenon after all

[Vampire Savior]

Most reasonable people also agree gentrification has negative consequences. Gentrification is not just about individuals moving in, the white guy who did shouldn’t feel attacked unless he’s the landlord or real estate company that’s going to move the prices up and redevelop it into generic town #122. Besides, the issue of gentrification is not directly race related, but rather class related, you seem to have a big misconception about that

Yeah, the story featuring Black Panther and a whole bunch of other black heroes is just about a historical black neighborhood by chance, hmm? I'm pretty sure that the idea of the threat wasn't that poorer black people would be replaced by rich black people. The conceit of the story is rooted in the idea of "Harlem is in danger of not being a black enclave anymore," which is a real world "issue" that some people concern themselves with, with Ta-Naheisi Coates most likely being counted among their numbers.

Also, I think it's fairly safe to say that the KKK is on what some would call the wrong side of history, despite some people agreeing with it and even today being a part of it.

[Rrobin]

Yeah, the story featuring Black Panther and a whole bunch of other black heroes is just about a historical black neighborhood by chance, hmm? I'm pretty sure that the idea of the threat wasn't that poorer black people would be replaced by rich black people. The conceit of the story is rooted in the idea of "Harlem is in danger of not being a black enclave anymore," which is a real world "issue" that some people concern themselves with, with Ta-Naheisi Coates most likely being counted among their numbers.

Also, I think it's fairly safe to say that the KKK is on what some would call the wrong side of history, despite some people agreeing with it and even today being a part of it.

Yeah, places losing their past culture is part of what many consider the ill effects of gentrification, is there anything wrong with the focus being on the culture of a predominantly black neighborhood, given that gentrification primarily affects poorer neighborhoods in the first place? Anyways, your main point was that the comic somehow attacks white people seeking to move in because of its focus on gentrification in black neighborhoods. How? The villain of the issue, the one behind everything, is goddamn Hydra, hiding behind luxury apartment blocks

Also, when the jungle action #21 is published, it was 1976. In 1970s, the KKK was still rather active and even had groups in universities. I think their numbers far outstrip the demographic of "white person who just moved into harlem"

In my opinion, comics have never been afraid of being controversial and should never be

[Arctic Cyclist]

Also, in the past, not everyone agreed the KKK was bad

Oh, and Gentrification has been criticized in older books too. It's not a new phenomenon after all

That's because it used to be socially acceptable to be a sociopath and criminal. At no point in time has the KKK not been a terrorist organization filled with murderers and rapists who should have all received the death sentence. The fact that publicly torturing people to death used to be morally acceptable does not make right even if the perpetrators were right.

That anyone would ever say the KKK was good shows either a great deal of ignorance or that they themselves need to end up on a terrorist watch list.

[kjn]

I don't see a problem with Black Panther beating the **** out of the clan. Its like Captain America beating up Nazi's. The KKK are obvious villains in this day in age.

Which points to why Captain America beating up Nazis in 1940 is hugely different from him beating up Nazis in 2019, or having Black Panther beat up the KKK in the 60s is different from him doing so now.

Because Nazis and the KKK today are past fascist movements. Basically, today they're clowns. Dangerous clowns, but still clowns. In 1940 it was different, and the shift from viewing the Nazis as a legitimate German nationalist political movement to them as unequivocal bad guys had barely been starting in the USA.

[C_Miller]

We definitely tend to look at the past with out a critical lens. Like many others have said, comics have been extremely political since their inception. Early Superman fought political corruption in his early issues, Captain America was featured on a cover punching out Hitler when he was a relatively respected world leader, Captain America becoming Nomad due to a veiled Nixon pastiche being revealed as part of a terrorist group, Captain America staying out of Vietnam, and those are just a few examples. It's easy to not view these things as controversial without actually thinking critically about the past. I hope one day, the expansion of heroes with diverse racial backgrounds and sexual orientations is viewed as uncontroversial as these political decisions.

But to the topic and hand. I'm kind of in the boat where I'm more interested in Old DC than current DC. I like a couple things coming out right now like Hawkman, Green Lantern and Wonder Twins. Martian Manhunter and Freedom Fighters are pretty good too. But one of the things that I really interested me about DC as a big Marvel fan when I was younger was the expansive universe and that just feels like it's missing these days.

[Zero Hunter]

I think another factor is some writers today worry about making a point more than telling a good story to make that point. Mark Waid is just so heavy handed in trying to get a point across in alot of his writing these days that he beats you over the head with it, and kind of forgets to really get the point across you need to tell a story that engages the reader and make them think about what your trying to say and not just shoved that point in your face. Waid isn't the only writer guilty of this he is just an example. Too many just don't know how to mesh their message with a good story.

[Mistah K88]

I will echo those who say that overdone hyper violence and grim darkness lately have kind of put a bad taste in my mouth. I think the cynic tone in general can be a bit of a turn off as well. Things like that are good in doses, but I like to see SOME gleams of hope. This may be why I've been tending to enjoy more animated entries than comics nowadays as they can be geared toward all ages...and less..."mature". I get that those things can sell and create conflict, but I don't NEED to see someone's skull broken with a baseball bat, when shadows are just fine.

I've actually taken interest in comics that were going on before I was born when it comes to Batman. I think his modern characterization as someone who doesn't trust or respect his team mates has left me kind of bitter toward one of my favorite characters in fiction.

[Lightning Rider]

Black Panther fights gentrification. How is this supposed to make the regular potential white guy reader who happened to move to Harlem feel?

Hopefully more thoughtful than they did before reading.

[Lightning Rider]

To be brief, I find myself attracted for the following reasons shared by others:

1. The feeling of authenticity in character growth and world-building for decades
2. The currently ill-defined continuity that handicaps stories and sidelines fan-favorite characters
3. The fact that I can cherry-pick absolute classics for years and still have more to look through

Some older stories are hard to read in terms of dialogue, others hold up well.

I like being current but it's a hassle so I have to be selective.

[byrd156]

Ding, ding, ding!!!! This comment is basically the epitome of correctness.

Pretty much this. DC feels very manufactured to me. I never really focused on specific writers or artists (unless they did really bad books) and just accepted the world/universe for how it was. Even if those horrible ideas and stories happened, ideas and story explorations were still possible for those ideas. I feel that there was an overall meh/decent to good ratio of books at the time. Some really great stuff like Morrison's Batman to meh but interesting Robinson's JLA. The world felt lived in and earned even if some characters or story elements weren't that great. There was always a sense that if things weren't at their best they could get there eventually.

Nowadays it feels like you have to go searching for good stuff and enjoy it while it's good before it eventually craps out. You gotta get out of the casino while the gettings good so to speak. Everything feels so manufactured and fragmented as a universe from basic designs and personalities to the more complex stuff of the universe and character dynamics at large. Characters no longer feel unique, they can just fill a role, a suit, a personality, a spot on the team simply because of a power set. Character feels like it's been lacking at DC for so long now. All the books that have been getting praise are the stuff that just acts as it's own thing since DC has slowly been poisoning themselves and the fans that the idea of a larger world isn't important. DC's editorial and higher ups feel wrong to me, there is a sense of confusion and unknown I get whenever I hear decisions or books launching. When was the last time we got a solid series that went into triple digits? It just doesn't happen anymore unless they bring back old numbering that shouldn't have went away in the first place like they did with Action and Detective Comics.

I can only give my opinion, these aren't facts only how I feel things are. I've only recently turned 21, I've been reading since I was either 4 or 5. That's only 16 or 17 years of reading comics. That's like 1 year or 2 in comic time even if the reboot didn't happen. I've never been nostalgic for the past because I didn't live through it. I grew up on DC through the DCAU and bargain bins filled with issues from every decade. I read the DCU almost like a treasure hunter putting pieces of a lost history back together again. It's probably that way of reading the DCU sections at a time that really made it feel lived in to me. I really started collecting ongoings around Infinite Crisis after experiencing CoIE for the first time. A continuation like that with 52 right after really just blew my mind. DC always felt like they were a perfect marriage of respecting the past while moving forward. Sometimes they would lean more one way or the other but both sides were always respected to a certain degree. There always felt like DC knew they were going somewhere with their overall world. Now, DC feels like they lost that respect. I don't feel like DC respects most of their characters or teams or at times the fans. DC feels like they want to keep going forward but have no goal or destination other than to just be a business. To make money and if they tell some good stories, cool, if they don't, cool.

[Electricmastro]

That's because it used to be socially acceptable to be a sociopath and criminal. At no point in time has the KKK not been a terrorist organization filled with murderers and rapists who should have all received the death sentence. The fact that publicly torturing people to death used to be morally acceptable does not make right even if the perpetrators were right.

That anyone would ever say the KKK was good shows either a great deal of ignorance or that they themselves need to end up on a terrorist watch list.

Far too many times I've read up on cases in which humans are so fearful and foolish in perceiving certain groups to be threats to the point that they take matters into their own hands, even if it doesn't respect the dignity, rights, and worth of human beings. Suffice to say, it can be very dangerous when someone believes that the ends justify the means, because the means can cause quite a lot of suffering.

Speaking of which, I'm reminded of these great pages from Green Lantern #76 (1970), which I felt provided an interesting character analysis for Hal: