Fans more Interested in Old DC than Current DC?

[Dark-Jacket]

I forgot a 7 xD

Trying to much to make comic books feel realistic xD

I did enjoy Young Justice too, bought the entiere run, and more recently, loved the superman family book.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

For me, comics were just so much better in the 70's and 80's (and very early 90's). Maybe that makes me an old man, I don't know. But I don't really have the same passion for comics written today that I did and continue to have for comics written back then.

It's just somewhat disheartening that to read good comics, you HAVE to dive into DC's back catalog. DC is still publishing some good stuff, but it's like two to four titles. On the bright side, it does give one an opportunity to read some of the old issues you've always wanted to read but never got the chance to.

[Fromper]

It's just somewhat disheartening that to read good comics, you HAVE to dive into DC's back catalog. DC is still publishing some good stuff, but it's like two to four titles. On the bright side, it does give one an opportunity to read some of the old issues you've always wanted to read but never got the chance to.

Or read other publishers. I have no idea what comics are the best right now, as I haven't really looked into it. But everyone here, including Didio's quote at the start of the thread, are acting like the choice is modern DC vs old DC. There's plenty of other options, both new and old, from other companies to consider, as well.

[Jon Clark]

That's rather ludicrous, if you ask me. Classics may be classics, but they are never a necessary reading for anyone. One doesn't need to read LotR to enjoy fantasy, nor does he needs to do that if he wants to talk about it.

No, but he looks like an idiot when talking about the new fantasy book he read and acting like the author is a genius for doing something that LOTR did decades ago.

I personally will take anything from the NEW 52's Superman (and Action Comics) and Wonder Woman series over what I read in the main continuity of those two characters and even some elseworlds (depending where one place All-Star Superman, mainly) because I really find those stories either boring or utterly infuriating to read because I find the character unlikable. Meanwhile, recent DC published Electric Warriors, The Silencer, New Superman, Deathstroke, Sideways, Naomi, The Terrifics, Justice League Dark, Snyder's Justice League, Red Hood and the Outlaws... Probably other I'm forgetting, also. And where was the love for those ?

There may not have been much love for them. At the end of the day, your favorite book isn't guaranteed to appeal to other people just because it appeals to you. I'm sure there are fans of Jack Kirby still wondering how the New Gods got cancelled in the 70's and Teen Titans kept getting re-launched. Or JSA and Legion fans who wonder why these concepts were left abandoned for so long before the upcoming relaunches. There is no accounting for taste on your side or theirs.

Nowhere, because DC Comic fans are so utterly stuck in the fervent love of the older books and series that almost all those new ones never met the audiences they deserved, because "they are new characters/teams so DC will cancell" and where obviously proven right when almost no-one supported the books. And then the same will lose their temper if older books and teams, which have often lost a lot of lustre and have only ancient but real successes are changed in any way, shape or form, because it's Heresy to have them modernized so new readers can discover them without having to deal with outdated visions and art styles.

Once there was a popular restaurant. For decades it's regular customers came by for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Time passed and so did some of the customers. The business was still profitable but no longer as profitable as it had been. The owner decided to improve business by revamping the menu from top to bottom. He looked at his competitors to see what they offered that was different. He looked at news stories on food trends for young couples and college students. He designed a new menu and had a grand reopening. Within a year he was out of business.

His loyal customers no longer came as what had attracted them was no longer being served. His competitors had locked up most of the market for people who preferred the foods they served. And new customers who came were not enough to keep the business afloat.

The moral of the story- change isn't always good and new isn't always better.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Or read other publishers. I have no idea what comics are the best right now, as I haven't really looked into it. But everyone here, including Didio's quote at the start of the thread, are acting like the choice is modern DC vs old DC. There's plenty of other options, both new and old, from other companies to consider, as well.

Oh, I read other publishers. I'm big into Spider-Man and Fantastic Four and I'm excited for the relaunch of X-Men. Also, I really enjoyed the first volume of Immortal Hulk. I also love some of what Image is putting out. Its just that DC and Marvel have always been like my bread and butter and many of my favorite characters are at DC. I just wish they were being handled more competently because one of the two companies I read the most from is in dire straits from where I'm sitting.

[Electricmastro]

Also remember 30-40 years old means comics from the 80s, and some of the comics from that age were quite good.
There was of course also bad stuff but thats also the case with current comics.

In that era the comics also resemble more the iconic version of the DCU, without all the new characters that were added later.

Yeah, I think the 1980s DC stories that I most frequently saw praised are these:

[DrNewGod]

I sometimes think 1980s DC was the best for four reasons:

• DC knew it needed to experiment, but kept the long-term welfare of their IP in mind
• The stories were becoming more complex but had not yet abandoned kids and casual readers
• Writers tended to treat the characters as assets with which they'd been entrusted rather than merely megaphones for their stories
• There was a lot more that we hadn't seen in comics before, and especially at DC

[skyvolt2000]

Meanwhile, recent DC published Electric Warriors, The Silencer, New Superman, Deathstroke, Sideways, Naomi, The Terrifics, Justice League Dark, Snyder's Justice League, Red Hood and the Outlaws... Probably other I'm forgetting, also. And where was the love for those ?

Don't let those comicchron numbers fool you. That is orders to the store not books someone bought.
Also when it comes to books folks like-they don't bother with message boards.

As said, the New Age of Heroes line was met with discontent because it was just bad.

New Age Heroes were not bad per-say-I think what really IRKED many was the talent behind them.
Take New 52 Static. He gets a guy with ZERO writing experience in MCDaniel. He puts out a bad book and that is it for Static.
Or Wally West, DIck Grayson, Titans and others-who have sold or have fans get crappy or bad talent.
Those listed about DON'T. So yeah you are going to get upset fans along with store owners.

That is not the fault of those books. That is a fault of management.

Maybe its becuase the stuff from post-2011 is bad in comparison to the stuff that came before? Simple as that. There are a few exceptions, but of the current line, not much stands up to the quality of the acclaimed DC runs of the 80s, 90s, and even the early-mid 2000s. I've actually also seen a lot of fans who jumped on with the New 52 come to that conclusion as well.

Maybe a better reply is for MANY those older books are the only place to read about some folks. Because you saw more risks being done than flooding the market with Batman books.

When was the last time Fire & Ice did anything?
Look at the folks being trashed or limbo or forever in badly done stories-they were folks who were leading the way for DC in the 80s-early 2000s.
Jaime Reyes & Jason Rusch held books for 3 years. Where are they now?
We saw a Justice League run with Ice, Fire, Booster, Ted & Scott Free. NOBODY THREW A FIT.
We saw Batman balance his private life and hero life and found time to TRAIN sidekicks. Sidekicks who got enough page time to get get spinoff books unlike Duke Thomas who does cameos.

Yeah, I think the 1980s DC stories that I most frequently saw praised are these:

I can't dispute any of those.

Or read other publishers. I have no idea what comics are the best right now, as I haven't really looked into it. But everyone here, including Didio's quote at the start of the thread, are acting like the choice is modern DC vs old DC. There's plenty of other options, both new and old, from other companies to consider, as well.

This is not about other companies. This is about DC heading towards a problem. Once upon a time Dc could toss out crap and it would sell and they would get away with it.
Those days are GONE. The competition is no longer playing with DC. All these frustrated fans didn't run to join comicsgate to bully or harass DC (more Marvel than DC) to get what they want.

Those fans discovered the worst kept secret-It's OKAY to read books from other companies. There is a reason Ahoy Comics had books INCREASE readership.

[Electricmastro]

I can't dispute any of those.

Yep. When it comes to DC writers from the 1980s like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Jim Starlin, Neil Gaiman, and Grant Morrison, and how their stories from that time are still widely acclaimed even after many years, then it doesn't surprise me that many people are still going back to them.

[andersonh1]

I don't know about other fans, but I'm far more interested in the older stuff than the current stuff. I spend a lot more on collected editions from the 40s-80s than I do current comics.

Current storytelling and characterization should be more to my liking, but when, for example, so of my favorite characters are treated poorly, why should I continue to read? Batman is an arrogant jerk to everyone, Superman has marital problems, and Wally West killed a bunch of guys and tried to cover it up, just to pick three current examples. Is it any wonder I'd prefer older stories where the heroes actually act like heroes, and aren't dragged through the mud by writers?

[Tzigone]

Current storytelling and characterization should be more to my liking, but when my favorite characters like Batman is an arrogant jerk to everyone, Superman has marital problems, and Wally West killed a bunch of guys and tried to cover it up, is it any wonder I'd prefer older stories where the heroes actually act like heroes, and aren't dragged through the mud by writers?

I remember from years ago (and I'm old enough it blends together, so I couldn't say whether '90s or '00s) hearing someone say that the only reason we call the leads in comics today "heroes" is because they are better than those they fight against. Rather than them truly being good. At the time, I didn't agree, and thought "heroes don't need to be perfect" I'm older now and feeling more sympathy. I know a lot more of the comic history now, and, of course, years have passed since then, and many more storylines have happened. Heroes don't need to be perfect, but they do need to be good. When I see them doing things that are just blatantly morally wrong over and over again (over years or even decades, of course, but much shorter time in their lives), when I look at them and think "I'm more moral than that" then that is a problem to me. Because I want heroes, not just "interesting characters." Going from big arc to big arc with little in between probably contributes to that, since something huge/dramatic always has to be happening. And it doesn't even make them interesting to me at this point. If it happened once or twice a decade, then it might be interesting. But now it's just frustrating and irritating and old and tired. And if the heroes do enough of these bad things, or continually treat others so poorly then I quit thinking of them as heroes. There are some I have to just compartmentalize and think of them in certain eras and ignore later stuff to even like or think of a heroes anymore. It's not that they've stopped doing good things, but one bad deed "weighs" more than one good one.

Events, too: some hero is always doing something bad these days, in the name of being shocking. With little regard for whether it makes any sense.

But I do acknowledge that several of the stories that have heroes be not-good people are very highly praised. Not the events, so much, but those that dedicate time and development to making them that way. I don't like those, either, at all. I want to read about characters I like. I want to either respect them or see them learning and improving and growing into someone I could respect in the future. The downward slide is of little interest to me, except when I can see them overcome it, and should be limited 10 issues at an absolute maximum. But many writers and readers seem to enjoy it. At least I can say then that it can be objectively well-executed and in the and in the name of character development (even if developing in a direction I don't personally like and don't enjoy reading) instead of slapped on whatever character is available/expendable during an event for shock value, regardless of whether it's in-character or not.

[mikelmcknight72]

I'm definitely in the "prefers older comics" camp, but it isn't due to nostalgia. The reason I general prefer the older comics is that, on the whole, they were a good deal less cynical. Grim & dark seems to be much more prevalent, heroes seem to be more flawed than not, and there is a lot less hope in the writing. Real life is already pretty depressing. I don't need more of the same from my entertainment/escape.

[Vampire Savior]

I'm only going to speak for myself.

First, I got really tired of Dan DiDio playing favorites and intentionally sabotaging, undermining, and ignoring characters because he does not like them. I happened to like some of the characters he doesn't--mainly Wally West and John Stewart--and I found following DC Comics a mostly infuriating experience. The lengths DiDio would go to in order to screw the characters were/are comical, such as turning Wally West into a black juvenile delinquent and failing to assassinate John Stewart after spending about a decade undermining him.

Second, when I did read the books, there were things in them that kept disrupting my enjoyment that I just do not find in other entertainment mediums. For example, the story I was reading would suddenly get interrupted by an event, or tie-in, or something of that nature, and it was clear the company's main priority was peddling these events, which were ALWAYS terrible, instead of telling good stories with their characters. "I don't care about Future's End, WTF am I reading?" I would think.

Third, continuity would be ignored left and right and I just couldn't get a sense for the story or characters. I realized that nothing I was reading mattered. I would be reading something one minute, and its canonical merit would be in question the next minute. Runs for writers were way too short, and writers would almost never build upon what previous writers did. Plot threads get swiftly dropped, stories don't make any sense with something you just read four or five months ago, characterization is way different, developments in a previous run that JUST happened are totally ignored, and so on. I just don't read stories like that. I read Wheel of Time from book 1 to book 14, and while it definitely has its faults, that type of stuff wasn't going on! At least the story made sense with itself. You can say, "Well, comics have multiple creative teams," and to that I say, "I don't care." I don't care about behind the scenes logistics, I'm just trying to enjoy stories, and what DC was/is putting forward just was not scratching that itch in a satisfactory manner. It's like the editors are clueless about everything and don't even try. The fans are often much more knowledgeable than the writers and editors it seems to me.

These are my biggest grievances, and I find they're so large I can't regularly enjoy DC's comics. These problems don't seem nearly as large in the comics I read from the 80s and 90s, which I enjoy much more.

[Fromper]

So to all those responding that they prefer the older stuff, and don't like DC's current books: Is it just DC, or are other comic publishers just as bad? Have you looked at anything from Marvel, Image, Dark Horse, or any other publisher recently? Do they have the same problems?

I really am curious. I haven't looked at any comic published in the last 15 years, so I have no standard for comparison.

[Vampire Savior]

So to all those responding that they prefer the older stuff, and don't like DC's current books: Is it just DC, or are other comic publishers just as bad? Have you looked at anything from Marvel, Image, Dark Horse, or any other publisher recently? Do they have the same problems?

I really am curious. I haven't looked at any comic published in the last 15 years, so I have no standard for comparison.

I don't follow Marvel, but for other reasons, like a lot of "WOKE" books, a prevalent Tumblr art style, the comics and characters don't seem to matter outside of how Marvel can adapt them for other media, they push characters down your throat regardless of how readers feel about them, their portrayal, or the stories, because Marvel wants to adapt them, relaunches up the ass, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking of. Honestly, DC looks better than Marvel to me. The only advantage I can see Marvel having over DC is if you're into "WOKE" stuff, Marvel has got that covered a lot better than DC.