What's the wildest Batverse retcon you would accept at this point?

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Jason never came back.

[byrd156]

Jason never came back.

This sounds like it has the right amount of crazy and dramatic potential.

[Jackalope89]

Jason never came back.

Went through about 20 years of no Jason. Hard pass.

How about stuff that doesn't include taking out a key character permanently?

[Pohzee]

Jason never came back.

Current Jason is a clone. We can call him... "Will."

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Went through about 20 years of no Jason. Hard pass.

How about stuff that doesn't include taking out a key character permanently?

He was more meaningful to the mythos dead than alive.

[Arsenal]

Bruce Wayne truly died when he “disappeared” and the one that came back is an impostor that doesn’t realize they aren’t the real thing.

[Zaresh]

He was more meaningful to the mythos dead than alive.

After so many of the batfam died and came back? Not really, no.

[Sergard]

Since when is it considered a "wild" retcon if you change something about a character you don't care about?


I like Jason and I like Cass. Since Lady Shiva was a candidate for Jason's mother in DitF I think it could be interesting if Lady Shiva was actually Jason's mother (biological father whoever, I don't particular care although I've read a cool fanfiction with Jason being the child of Shiva and Richard Dragon). Jason and Cass being half-siblings sounds like an interesting dynamic, especially since there are so many biological only children in the batfam.

[Tzigone]

He was more meaningful to the mythos dead than alive.

He was terrible dead, because his contribution to the mythos was false - he was constantly victim-blamed and treated as a bad seed and so forth. Not that they don't still do that some now. That's my biggest issue - saying he served as a cautionary tale is crock of crap because it's based on him being responsible for getting himself killed instead of the truth of betrayal and him dying a noble hero. Other than being treated like an absolute failure, he was scarcely mentioned. Not sure it's any better now, but at least fans discuss how much he was maligned by DC. And Bruce's switch to more violent over his death was sort of retconned in, rather than it being an actual normal outgrowth of the story when it happened. I don't even particularly like him, but don't think he contributed anything to the mythos dead.

I like Jason and I like Cass. Since Lady Shiva was a candidate for Jason's mother in DitF I think it could be interesting if Lady Shiva was actually Jason's mother (biological father whoever, I don't particular care although I've read a cool fanfiction with Jason being the child of Shiva and Richard Dragon). Jason and Cass being half-siblings sounds like an interesting dynamic, especially since there are so many biological only childs in the batfam.

Doesn't work for me. Partially because Jason does not look to have any Asian heritage, but mostly for the Sheila betrayal (never got behind the switch to Catherine) loses some oomph that way. Also, because DNA doesn't really make Cass and Jason any more than already were to me.

[Jackalope89]

Since when is it considered a "wild" retcon if you change something about a character you don't care about?


I like Jason and I like Cass. Since Lady Shiva was a candidate for Jason's mother in DitF I think it could be interesting if Lady Shiva was actually Jason's mother (biological father whoever, I don't particular care although I've read a cool fanfiction with Jason being the child of Shiva and Richard Dragon). Jason and Cass being half-siblings sounds like an interesting dynamic, especially since there are so many biological only childs in the batfam.

Eh, no. While not as bad as some other things I've come across, Jason has never been portrayed to have any Asian features. He has black hair, but that's hardly specific to Asia.
Catherine being his (though drugged up) mother works better. Willis as his father... Lobdell was clearly going to do a whole arc about that, but it seems editorial once again made him shift away from that. I could see someone else being his biological father though.

And no, I don't see Jason as Hispanic either (not even sure how that one got started).

[Tzigone]

Wildest retcon I could actually accept (in a new reboot, though, too far for non-reboot) would be bringing back Tony Gordon, and bringing him back alive. Never cared for James Jr. But Tony, in his barely-existent good-guy bronze-age big brotherness - yeah, I could enjoy that.

[Zaresh]

He was terrible dead, because his contribution to the mythos was false - he was constantly victim-blamed and treated as a bad seed and so forth. Not that they don't still do that some now. That's my biggest issue - saying he served as a cautionary tale is crock of crap because it's based on him being responsible for getting himself killed instead of the truth of betrayal and him drying a noble hero. Other than being treated like an absolute failure, he was scarcely mentioned. Not sure it's any better now, but at least fans discuss how much he was maligned by DC. And Bruce's switch to more violent over his death was sort of retconned in, rather than it being an actual normal outgrowth of the story when it happened. I don't even particularly like him, but don't think he contributed anything to the mythos dead.

Yeah, that too, I agree.

[Zaresh]

Eh, no. While not as bad as some other things I've come across, Jason has never been portrayed to have any Asian features. He has black hair, but that's hardly specific to Asia.
Catherine being his (though drugged up) mother works better. Willis as his father... Lobdell was clearly going to do a whole arc about that, but it seems editorial once again made him shift away from that. I could see someone else being his biological father though.

And no, I don't see Jason as Hispanic either (not even sure how that one got started).

Sorry for double posting.

In the case of Lady Shiva, I wouldn't mind. She's not entirely asian either, maybe? But yeah, I agree in that it'd be better if he's not her son. More potential for new players in the board of Gotham's game of houses of high and low. Which is what Lobdell is probably trying, I guess: adding a new family in the game (whoever Willis named Jason for, and then Ma Gunn having her connections).

I still like my idea for how to rework the Sheyla betrayal / incitent into our current continuity, with Catherine being Jason's biological mother (I wonder if it's lost foverer, being in the older Jason App thread).

The hispanic / latino Jason always feels a bit, hmmm, prejudiced for me. I know it's probably a mix of asking for adding diversity in the family and how much "exotic" (for some) it is if he's a "hot latino". But it still doesn't sit me well.

[Arctic Cyclist]

Since when is it considered a "wild" retcon if you change something about a character you don't care about?


I like Jason and I like Cass. Since Lady Shiva was a candidate for Jason's mother in DitF I think it could be interesting if Lady Shiva was actually Jason's mother (biological father whoever, I don't particular care although I've read a cool fanfiction with Jason being the child of Shiva and Richard Dragon). Jason and Cass being half-siblings sounds like an interesting dynamic, especially since there are so many biological only children in the batfam.

I find it interesting that people fixate on Lady Shiva when the other possible mother was equally as kickass of a woman, more so if you seriously consider her, as a member of the Israeli secret services and spy. She someone who it would be fun to see again.

Personally, before Lobdell did all the work with Jason's family (and aged Jason's mom down) I thought it would have made sense to have Jason be one of Bruce's bastards. Tim as well, particularly as prior to the new 52 both of the Drakes and the Todds (and Shelia) were depicted as having brown and blonde hair with black haired sons. That's impossible as black hair is a dominant trait. It explains why Bruce was so eager to adopt both of them as Bruce has historically been more interested in having children and continuing his bloodline than getting married.

Since Carrie Kelley has been introduced and heavily implied that Damian sought her ought because he knew she's his sister, making Tim Bruce's cuckoo works for me. Jason too...although not as much since I love the retcon of Willis and Grandma Gunn being his living family.

The other retcon I would happily embrace, that's quite probable and explains Ra's al Ghul's obsession with Bruce as well as why Damian would be a closer relative (according to the Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul) than Dusan to Ra's is Alan Wayne was actually the son of Nyssa and Joshua. We know that Solomon, Joshua, and Nyssa all were part of the Underground Railroad and Solomon's wife was pregnant when Joshua died. Given the high infant mortality rates at the time, and Nyssa not wanting her first born to be a vessel for her father, it would be easy to have her hide the pregnancy and then give the baby to the Waynes to replace their dead newborn.

It would also explain most of Nyssa's behavior, including her aversion to seeing Bruce harmed if he were her last living descendant.

[Tzigone]

Personally, before Lobdell did all the work with Jason's family (and aged Jason's mom down) I thought it would have made sense to have Jason be one of Bruce's bastards. Tim as well, particularly as prior to the new 52 both of the Drakes and the Todds (and Shelia) were depicted as having brown and blonde hair with black haired sons. That's impossible as black hair is a dominant trait. It explains why Bruce was so eager to adopt both of them as Bruce has historically been more interested in having children and continuing his bloodline than getting married.

Jack was originally blackhaired. (up until at the mid 60s of the Robin series) I don't feel Bruce "traditionally" cared about his bloodline, and Bruce only caring because they are his bio kids would make him look like a worse person....yeah, okay, that could happen.