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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    OP Question -

    If Batman were African American or any other ethnicity really. I could accept such a radical change with ease.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    OP Question -

    If Batman were African American or any other ethnicity really. I could accept such a radical change with ease.
    The only thing I have against that is we can no longer use Bruce as a punchline about Privileged Straight White Cis Man XD

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    The only thing I have against that is we can no longer use Bruce as a punchline about Privileged Straight White Cis Man XD
    Like using a fork and knife on a burger in a fast food restaurant?

  4. #49
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Like using a fork and knife on a burger in a fast food restaurant?
    That was just stupid. Not even funny. Certainly not a pointed jab. You know, once upon a time he was a pretty normal guy for someone who dressed up in a bat costume to fight crime. He could and did blend in. His eating habits/manners were like everyone else's. Used slang, wore jeans, etc. But every so often now (well, then), they make him super-formal and more than a little ridiculous in ways that aren't consistent with what he used to be and aren't even logical.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    That was just stupid. Not even funny. Certainly not a pointed jab. You know, once upon a time he was a pretty normal guy for someone who dressed up in a bat costume to fight crime. He could and did blend in. His eating habits/manners were like everyone else's. Used slang, wore jeans, etc. But every so often now (well, then), they make him super-formal and more than a little ridiculous in ways that aren't consistent with what he used to be and aren't even logical.
    He was pretending. When eating Burger as Batman, he held it in his hands. Gloves. Which is kinda gross, but eh. It's in both King and Lobdell's depiction so it's consistent that eating by hands is his normal mode while the fork and knife are just him doing a snooty Bruce Wayne persona.

  6. #51
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    I'd roll with the notion that all the previous retcons, and man, the last few years have been living off of retcons, are a coordinated attack - the result of some sort of Retconspiracy with cosmic implications. Which is the nature of the Hyper-Adapter and Barbatos anyway. But the question becomes WHO? ... is it Darkseid? Is it Barbatos? Or could someone else have set this into motion? The implications are broad. Obviously some aspect of the past decade of retcon-based stories involves Batman himself accidentally setting it all into motion, being his own 'worst enemy' in a way, because just by being Batman, when he travels in time or attracts the attention of cosmic gods, he unwittingly creates a constant string of Batman-themed conspiracies against himself, his family, even his universe, all forces tailored specifically to attack Batman - forces that present themselves in the form of conspiracies, secret history, and tweaks to the timeline. You know, stuff Batman would unconsciously actually WANT to solve or face or take down, manifesting themselves as a cosmic puzzle for him to solve.

    So yeah, the Retconspiracy Retcon.
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  7. #52
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    He was pretending. When eating Burger as Batman, he held it in his hands. Gloves. Which is kinda gross, but eh. It's in both King and Lobdell's depiction so it's consistent that eating by hands is his normal mode while the fork and knife are just him doing a snooty Bruce Wayne persona.
    It's stupid for him to pretend to that degree (I also have issues of the increasing loss of "Bruce" as opposed to "Brucie"), but even beyond that - I'm willing to bet $50 that rich, snooty people don't generally eat their hamburgers with knife and fork. It's stupid enough not to be funny. To be fair, my negative feelings about the end of that issue and then the next one (assuming I haven't gotten it mixed up with another issue) likely color my perception.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-07-2019 at 08:50 AM.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    . . . I'm willing to bet $50 that rich, snooty people don't generally eat their hamburgers with knife and fork.
    It may all depend on where they are, what they are wearing, and how big/how messy the burger is.
    Hell, some people eat pizza with a knife and fork (which I may do occasionally depending on the thickness/firmness of the crust or if it's a really deep-dish pizza).

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    It may all depend on where they are, what they are wearing, and how big/how messy the burger is.
    Hell, some people eat pizza with a knife and fork (which I may do occasionally depending on the thickness/firmness of the crust or if it's a really deep-dish pizza).
    Well, I meant in that sort of place, and as a general rule. But pizza with fork is much more reasonable than burger. Never used a knife, but pizza can be floppy or too hot to handle, and a fork is useful then. The bun from a burger should not be too hot, and if biting squishes out insides of a burger, a knife and fork will do the same. It's also harder to "keep together" if it has multiple toppings than pizza would be.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Well, I meant in that sort of place, and as a general rule. But pizza with fork is much more reasonable than burger. Never used a knife, but pizza can be floppy or too hot to handle, and a fork is useful then. The bun from a burger should not be too hot, and if biting squishes out insides of a burger, a knife and fork will do the same. It's also harder to "keep together" if it has multiple toppings than pizza would be.
    I eat burgers with a fork when I don't wanna dirty my hand and I can attest that the burgers do end up squished and its content can fall everywhere. Especially if they're thick. My fork is pretty long though so they don't end up messy until the last piece and I just stab or scoop the rest of the contents like a salad.

    I can't, however, testify to the effectiveness of plastic forks and knives they give at the restaurant.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 08-07-2019 at 01:21 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I was just jokingly referencing Batman Fortunate Son.
    Yep. Which Snyder brought into current canon in the first arc of Batman and the Signal. Unlike King, who used Damian's hunting down Martha's pearl to show Bruce his pain and past don't have to define to erase Damian from the narrative and push Selina, Snyder has used that same pearl story and built on it by showing Duke helping Bruce without realizing it to get over his abusive relationship with a punk rocker.

    Honestly, knowing that Bruce once got sucked into an abusive relationship with an older man that ended with the death of the girl the man replaced Bruce with does a lot to explain all of Bruce's self destructive relationships. His parents' death is something he should be mostly healed from; until Jason's death he was thanks to Dick, Jason, and useful mental health treatments like yoga, but having that experience at 19/20 on top of seeing his parents murdered completely explains why he fails in relationships with suitable partners, pursues unsuitable relationships with inequal power dynamics, and keeps giving people like Harley and Ivy passes despite their obvious culpability.

    I think that is why Snyder made it canon, and established that thanks to all the Robins and Duke, Bruce once again can enjoy music besides smooth jazz. I believe that's called...realistic character development.

    Fortunate Son is still painfully bad though.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I eat burgers with a fork when I don't wanna dirty my hand and I can attest that the burgers do end up squished and its content can fall everywhere. Especially if they're thick. My fork is pretty long though so they don't end up messy until the last piece and I just stab or scoop the rest of the contents like a salad.

    I can't, however, testify to the effectiveness of plastic forks and knives they give at the restaurant.
    Unless you are a snooty rich person surrounded by other snooty rich people who mostly do the same thing when eating burgers, I don't see how this lends credence to the idea of Bruce doing this as part of a snooty rich person facade.

    Honestly, knowing that Bruce once got sucked into an abusive relationship with an older man that ended with the death of the girl the man replaced Bruce with does a lot to explain all of Bruce's self destructive relationships. His parents' death is something he should be mostly healed from; until Jason's death he was thanks to Dick, Jason, and useful mental health treatments like yoga, but having that experience at 19/20 on top of seeing his parents murdered completely explains why he fails in relationships with suitable partners, pursues unsuitable relationships with inequal power dynamics, and keeps giving people like Harley and Ivy passes despite their obvious culpability.
    I have no idea what story you are talking about, but that sounds pretty bad to me. It's once again backprojecting problems that didn't previously exist (in Bruce's actual younger years that we read when they were happening) into Bruce's past, which has been done over and over and over again.

    But, also, like I said earlier in the thread, I'm not at all happy with retcons that change or insert important, life-shaping events into characters' histories that we should have already known about or that contradict characterizations/events we saw unfold as they happened. I still get irritated at the bad-relationship-when-Dick-was-in-earlier-days-of-Robin stories, and they've been around how long? Also annoyed with Barbara turned protege, Kon made related to Clark and Luthor, and several others. i probably should have stuck to reading instead of commenting - like I said earlier in the thread; I'm not good with big or wild rectons.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-07-2019 at 02:36 PM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Unless you are a snooty rich person surrounded by other snooty rich people who mostly do the same thing when eating burgers, I don't see how this lends credence to the idea of Bruce doing this as part of a snooty rich person facade.
    It doesn't. I'm just sharing since we're talking about burgers. Relax.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I can't, however, testify to the effectiveness of plastic forks and knives they give at the restaurant.
    Some restaurants have real, metal forks and knives.

  15. #60
    The Nature Boy AnakinFlair's Avatar
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    Selina wakes up to find Bruce in her shower, and it's revealed the last 76 issues were a bad dream.

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