Parallel Lives and Mary Jane

[Mister Mets]

This came up in another discussion, but I didn't want to go off-track.

The graphic novel Parallel Lives showed what Peter & MJ were up to before they met one another. An issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man from Mary Jane's perspective made it canon.

Paralel Lives revealed that Mary Jane had learned that Peter was Spider-Man on the night that Uncle Ben was killed, so that when she made her iconic debut at the end of Amazing Spider-Man #42, it came after years of wrestling with the implications. In every single exchange between Peter & MJ, she knew his secret identity.

There have been some arguments about the story in the past, and a thread that went on for several hundred posts that got wiped in the forum reset a few years back.

I think it was a mistake since it changes the context of Peter and Mary Jane's relationship in ways the original writers didn't intend for minimal gain (that Mary Jane always knew that Peter was Spider-Man has only been referenced a handful of times- it is telling that there have been no flashbacks to Mary Jane's point of view of the Lee/ Romita era taking this new information into account) but I know there are different perspectives.

What are your views?

[Miles To Go]

Mind if I transfer my thoughts on this from the prior thread that inspired you to activate this one?

It had tangible benefit, it established MJ's extreme levels of method acting retroactively, showed the levels which she would take to ensure Peter did'nt know, anything that contradicted it could easily be applied to her being in self denial about her own knowledge [as someone with similar past experiences, I know how EASY that can be btw], and enforces her strength and stamina in coping with that knowledge to become the essential character she was [and in some mediums, still is] in Peter's life.

[Masked Guy]

While I think Parallel Lives is a great story overall, I do have a gripe with Mary Jane knowing Peter's secret from the very beginning. While this is a very interesting idea, it doesn't make much sense when placed into context. In the years leading up to Amazing vol. 1 #259, it was pretty clear that Mary Jane had no idea that Peter was Spider-Man. I really don't think she would have been so angry at him for skipping out on her all of those times if she really knew he was out saving people's lives. So to reiterate, it's a good method of establishing the connection between the two, but it doesn't really add up with what we've seen before. Parallel Lives is still excellent though.

[Lindsey]

The problem with adding such a major revelation and making canon after so many years is it tends to make how the characters were written for so many years seem out of character, when that really wasn't the case as the original writers had no idea of this. It's always a great idea to try to expand on a mythos such as Spider-Man's but I feel a lot of times, the creators don't really think about the ramifications they make to the stories that came before.

This is why a flashback series such as Untold can have so many problems. The stories aren't impactful for the most part and if they try to make them so, they risk making decades of character work seem strange and out of character.

[Miles To Go]

The problem with adding such a major revelation and making cannon after so many years is it tends to make how the characters were written for so many years seem out of character, when that really wasn't the case as the original writers had no idea of this. It's always a great idea to try to expand on a mythos such as Spider-Man's but I feel a lot of times, the creators don't really think about the ramifications they make to the stories that came before.

This is why a flashback series such as Untold can have so many problems. The stories aren't impactful for the most part and if they try to make them so, they risk making decades of character work seem strange and out of character.

Not really. Read my above post as to why it worked out for MJ.

[Tuck]

It turns her into Felicia.

I like her figuring it out.

I don't like her always having known.

[Masked Guy]

It turns her into Felicia.

I like her figuring it out.

I don't like her always having known.

Felicia didn't know from the beginning. She only found out when Spider-Man willingly unmasked in front of her (and then freaked out over it like an idiot).

[Miles To Go]

It turns her into Felicia.

I like her figuring it out.

I don't like her always having known.

How does it turn her into Felicia? MJ established later she was already crushing on Peter from afar, and that Spidey was just the bonus for existing feelings

[Starrius]

in the 90s, Mary Jane was getting a bit irritated and frustrated with Peter going out as Spider-Man.
The dude seemed a bit neurotic to me like he seriously needed to go see a shrink. He took responsibility as a crime fighter to an extreme (he seemed worse than Batman) to the point that he came across as not properly taking care of his wife.
He would be gone for days at times.
She was even smoking to cope.
Heck...She was even shown to have a chance to have an affair with another man that was attempting seduce her, but she remained faithful

Those stories made me feel more for Mary Jane
She was like the cop's wife times 40, having contant worrying about when will the day when her husband never comes home due to being killed

What I liked about the Spider-marriage was it was a like a typical marriage in some ways with lots of ups and downs
you see them arguing over Peter's safety (when Peter does stupid stuff like going back into action even though he has a concussion)....you see them hugging
Mary Jane nags a little, and Peter gets defensive
when it comes down to it, they hang in there and don't quit
heck...Mary Jane still stuck with Peter when he was believed to be a clone
when Peter was in pursuit of killing her under the Jackal programming, she was very clever and brave to break the Jackal's hold over Peter
Mary Jane had a lot of strength which is something that seems to lacking in post-OMD Mary Jane
The point of OMIT was to make Mary Jane look weak. The real Mary Jane wouldn't give up on Peter.

[Tuck]

How does it turn her into Felicia? MJ established later she always loved Peter from afar, not Spidey.

The mechanics of the story make that argument tenuous.

You can't actually know what your counterfactual reaction to something would be with the absence of vital information. And the story made of point of her identifying with Spider-Man during his celebrity period, if I recall correctly (been a long while).

It doesn't make her a starf***er like Felicia, but still . . .

[nose norton]

Paralel Lives revealed that Mary Jane had learned that Peter was Spider-Man on the night that Uncle Ben was killed, so that when she made her iconic debut at the end of Amazing Spider-Man #42, it came after years of wrestling with the implications. In every single exchange between Peter & MJ, she knew his secret identity.

One of the clumsiest retcons I can recall, and a totally unnecessary one, after ASM #258-259.

[Masked Guy]

in the 90s, Mary Jane was getting a bit irritated and frustrated with Peter going out as Spider-Man.
The dude seemed a bit neurotic to me like he seriously needed to go see a shrink. He took responsibility as a crime fighter to an extreme (he seemed worse than Batman) to the point that he came across as not properly taking care of his wife.
He would be gone for days at times.
She was even smoking to cope.
Heck...She was even shown to have a chance to have an affair with another man that was attempting seduce her, but she remained faithful

Those stories made me feel more for Mary Jane
She was like the cop's wife times 40, having contant worrying about when will the day when her husband never comes home due to being killed

What I liked about the Spider-marriage was it was a like a typical marriage in some ways with lots of ups and downs
you see them arguing over Peter's safety (when Peter does stupid stuff like going back into action even though he has a concussion)....you see them hugging
Mary Jane nags a little, and Peter gets defensive
when it comes down to it, they hang in there and don't quit
heck...Mary Jane still stuck with Peter when he was believed to be a clone
when Peter was in pursuit of killing her under the Jackal programming, she was very clever and brave to break the Jackal's hold over Peter
Mary Jane had a lot of strength which is something that seems to lacking in post-OMD Mary Jane
The point of OMIT was to make Mary Jane look weak. The real Mary Jane wouldn't give up on Peter.

Their relationship (or lack of) today is certainly a far cry from what it once was.

[Miles To Go]

One of the clumsiest retcons I can recall, and a totally unnecessary one, after ASM #258-259.

It added dimension to her character's struggles retroactively. Made her more developed than ever.

How is it clumsy? Elaborate please.

[nose norton]

How is it clumsy?

As already explained by other people in this thread, it doesn't add up to what we knew of the character, from the original stories.

[DCordo74]

While I think Parallel Lives is a great story overall, I do have a gripe with Mary Jane knowing Peter's secret from the very beginning. While this is a very interesting idea, it doesn't make much sense when placed into context. In the years leading up to Amazing vol. 1 #259, it was pretty clear that Mary Jane had no idea that Peter was Spider-Man. I really don't think she would have been so angry at him for skipping out on her all of those times if she really knew he was out saving people's lives. So to reiterate, it's a good method of establishing the connection between the two, but it doesn't really add up with what we've seen before. Parallel Lives is still excellent though.

I pretty much agree. It's still very well written despite the slight continuity errors.