The Lizard in "SHED" (Spoilers)

[Hugo Strange]

I liked the idea of a Lizard with "mammal brain". It had some potential... never used outside this same story arc.

[kingaliencracker]

I liked it. I never found the Lizard as interesting as I have since Brand New Day.

Sure, it's dark. But *shrugs*

-Pav, who likes the Lizard Clone Family too...

I don't have a problem with the story being dark. Kraven's Last Hunt is widely considered to be one of the greatest Spider-Man stories of all-time and it's exceptionally dark.

My issue with the story in hindsight is that it took a character that was tragic and redeemable in the Lizard, and essentially made him unusable. I understand that, like any villain, the Lizard is going to have his fans and his non-fans. And I'm fine with writers going in a different direction with established characters, provided that once the writer leaves the book the character is reset more or less back to where he/she was prior to the changes. But as I stated, there is no going back from mauling your own son to death. And it's not from lack of trying from Marvel's end, given that they cloned Billy and had Doctor Strange establish that somehow Billy's original soul is in the clone.

I think by trying to make the Lizard more interesting, what they ultimately did was make you care about him even less.

[Pav]

My issue with the story in hindsight is that it took a character that was tragic and redeemable in the Lizard, and essentially made him unusable. I understand that, like any villain, the Lizard is going to have his fans and his non-fans. And I'm fine with writers going in a different direction with established characters, provided that once the writer leaves the book the character is reset more or less back to where he/she was prior to the changes. But as I stated, there is no going back from mauling your own son to death. And it's not from lack of trying from Marvel's end, given that they cloned Billy and had Doctor Strange establish that somehow Billy's original soul is in the clone.

I think the character became even more tragic, and he obviously isn't unusable because, as you said yourself, Spencer found a way to continue the Lizard's story in a way he found accceptable.

-Pav, who also liked the Feral story in "Sensational"...

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I think the character became even more tragic, and he obviously isn't unusable because, as you said yourself, Spencer found a way to continue the Lizard's story in a way he found accceptable.

Spencer did that by downplaying SHED as much as possible. That's not exactly a recommendation to it.

And the stuff with Connors' family could have happened without Shed easily.

[kingaliencracker]

I think the character became even more tragic, and he obviously isn't unusable because, as you said yourself, Spencer found a way to continue the Lizard's story in a way he found accceptable.

-Pav, who also liked the Feral story in "Sensational"...

They were able to use the character again by all but ignoring Shed and undoing Billy's death the best way they could. I don't know if that's really a ringing endorsement of the story.

[Pav]

Spencer did that by downplaying SHED as much as possible. That's not exactly a recommendation to it.

And the stuff with Connors' family could have happened without Shed easily.

They were able to use the character again by all but ignoring Shed and undoing Billy's death the best way they could. I don't know if that's really a ringing endorsement of the story.

That may be. I'm just pointing out that the character isn't unusable because of Shed or any other story.

Spencer's version of the Lizard may not be a ringing endorsement for Shed, but he didn't choose to ignore it either. He took what he was given and continued the story of the Connors family as he saw fit, which I respect. The cloning and all that probably wouldn't have happened (or been necessary) had Shed not been written.

Anyway, count me as someone who thinks Clone Lizard Billy is more interesting than Normal Billy.

-Pav, who knows any character can be redeemed or brought back...

[Mister Mets]

That may be. I'm just pointing out that the character isn't unusable because of Shed or any other story.

Spencer's version of the Lizard may not be a ringing endorsement for Shed, but he didn't choose to ignore it either. He took what he was given and continued the story of the Connors family as he saw fit, which I respect. The cloning and all that probably wouldn't have happened (or been necessary) had Shed not been written.

Anyway, count me as someone who thinks Clone Lizard Billy is more interesting than Normal Billy.

-Pav, who knows any character can be redeemed or brought back...

It is worth noting that Spencer used what happened to Billy in Shed (and Clone Conspiracy) in the story.

[Snoop Dogg]

curt murder guilt makes that story better and that character more interesting

[Inversed]

That may be. I'm just pointing out that the character isn't unusable because of Shed or any other story.

Spencer's version of the Lizard may not be a ringing endorsement for Shed, but he didn't choose to ignore it either. He took what he was given and continued the story of the Connors family as he saw fit, which I respect. The cloning and all that probably wouldn't have happened (or been necessary) had Shed not been written.

Anyway, count me as someone who thinks Clone Lizard Billy is more interesting than Normal Billy.

-Pav, who knows any character can be redeemed or brought back...

Thinking about it, I am remembering with how The Clone Conspiracy ended off with the Conners, where the execution is very clearly supposed to be a very disturbing image and just another tragic element for the Lizard, but then when Spencer brings them back in its all "Nah everything's alright, they're all good".

[Celgress]

My two cents regarding Shed -

I think they should never have brought Curt's family back in any way, shape, or form, especially not Billy. I would have let Shed stand as Curt's Uncle Ben Moment all be it an extremely unnerving and dark example of the trope. Curt needed to live with the consequences of his actions and learn the lesson that he could never lose control again. Shed could have represented Curt's first step towards becoming a tragic hero but no they had to forever blunt its impact with that awful excuse for a storyline called "Clone Conspiracy".

[Huntsman Spider]

My two cents regarding Shed -

I think they should never have brought Curt's family back in any way, shape, or form, especially not Billy. I would have let Shed stand as Curt's Uncle Ben Moment all be it an extremely unnerving and dark example of the trope. Curt needed to live with the consequences of his actions and learn the lesson that he could never lose control again. Shed could have represented Curt's first step towards becoming a tragic hero but no they had to forever blunt its impact with that awful excuse for a storyline called "Clone Conspiracy".

In a way, he's still living with the consequences. Billy, such as he is, still remembers how he died, as everyone "reanimated" in The Clone Conspiracy does, and Hunted made it very clear that he's not exactly over it, not to mention that Curt let himself be locked up even when he regained conscious control of himself in the Lizard's body because he believed he deserved to be locked up for the rest of his life. Even with the second chance he got, it was only through an implant that rendered him physically incapable of violence, which wouldn't have happened without the events of Shed making him realize that he'd always be a danger to everyone around him unless he took drastic measures to prevent it. In the aftermath of Hunted, he was ready to lock himself up for the rest of his life with a Damocles sword over his head should he (or the Lizard) ever try to escape, because he just didn't trust himself not to lose control again.

[Celgress]

In a way, he's still living with the consequences. Billy, such as he is, still remembers how he died, as everyone "reanimated" in The Clone Conspiracy does, and Hunted made it very clear that he's not exactly over it, not to mention that Curt let himself be locked up even when he regained conscious control of himself in the Lizard's body because he believed he deserved to be locked up for the rest of his life. Even with the second chance he got, it was only through an implant that rendered him physically incapable of violence, which wouldn't have happened without the events of Shed making him realize that he'd always be a danger to everyone around him unless he took drastic measures to prevent it. In the aftermath of Hunted, he was ready to lock himself up for the rest of his life with a Damocles sword over his head should he (or the Lizard) ever try to escape, because he just didn't trust himself not to lose control again.

Granted, but I still would have preferred if Billy stayed dead (at least for a few more years). His gruesome demise has lost some of its impact due to the resurrection, IMO.

[Huntsman Spider]

Granted, but I still would have preferred if Billy stayed dead (at least for a few more years). His gruesome demise has lost some of its impact due to the resurrection, IMO.

That's a good point. At the same time, I don't entirely mind it because the gruesome murder of a child . . . yeah, that was a bridge too far, even for me.

[Snoop Dogg]

billy's resurrection means that if lizard stories go back to the old shitty loop where's he's wild for two seconds, a fight happens, and then he's not anymore and everything is fine, at least there's a tangible understanding of how bad things can get if he's not stopped

[Huntsman Spider]

billy's resurrection means that if lizard stories go back to the old shitty loop where's he's wild for two seconds, a fight happens, and then he's not anymore and everything is fine, at least there's a tangible understanding of how bad things can get if he's not stopped

Also a good point.