Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    687

    Default Best origin for the Amazons?

    What do you think is the best origin for them? Either a version from the comics or your own.

    I've been looking at the different eras continuitities. Right now I'm not talking about Diana or how the island's tech works. Just from the birth/creation of the Amazons until they reach the island.

    I'm not at all keen of them being the souls of women that previously existed. I'm not even sure Greek mythology has souls of that sort. In any event, certainly goddesses have been seen to animate sculpture without any reference to needing to obtain a soul (rather than just creating life) as with Pygmalion's statue. Anyway, I also think it sets them up more to be hateful against men - all men - and that's not what I want from my Amazons. I'm also not at all keen on prophecy or destiny. That the Amazons be created to a purpose is great, that the result be known ahead of time is not. A common situation - I know what I don't want, but not what I do want. I do like Aphrodite being their patron, as it was originally. I do like them having some purpose (guarding something evil, protecting a gate, etc.) on the island.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,360

    Default

    All of the origins are pretty much similar they were created to help better the world but through outside forces were harmed. I often in my own origins liked the idea of Aphrodite, Artemis, Athena and maybe a few more. Had reused the daughters who were abandoned to die. It was more common practice to abandon girls in the middle of nowhere. They raised them up to be great warriors. Many of the Amazon growth due to them recusing the unwanted children. This would include boys also. Although it was less common.
    Support IMPOSSIBLE JONES

    impossiblekickstarter.com

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    2,760

    Default

    Generally, the Greek myths weren't that concerned with cosmology (like how the world started and how it will end), so I don't think that's something needed to be a big part of the Amazon backstory. I've posted my vision of them a few times, but I see the Amazons as nymphs of civilisation. Humanity learnt stuff like agriculture, law, crafts, and so on from them.

    The place where I radically divert from most DC versions is what happens after they free themselves from being captured by Heracles. Instead of being chastised by their Patrons for failure, it's more that their Patrons realise that the Amazons have become a target in the battle between gods and their followers among mankind, so the Amazons are given the opportunity to retire to Themyscira the island (probably also with some important mission to uphold, or thing/place to protect). However, some Amazons didn't want to give up their role as teachers and guides to mankind, and those became the Bana-mighdall.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #4
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    599

    Default

    I like it starting with the "Amazons" of myth (except in the DC universe, the myth is actually true). So, a premier tribe / nation of warrior women who came together to preserve their own safety and to defend others. As a result of their good deeds, they're blessed by the Greek gods (whether some of them, all of them or only the female goddesses) with immortality and given a "paradise" to live on (i.e. Themyscira) in exchange for accepting a heavy burden (i.e. guarding Doom's Doorway). However, the Amazons negotiated with the Greek gods for the right to seek to rehabilitate villains / prisoners, so they're not solely prison wardens, but also counsellors who seek a form of rehabilitative justice.

    The ranks of the Amazons grow as various women from man's world are transported to Themyscira upon their death and granted immortality. I'm not exactly sure what the criteria should be - simply heroic women, women who still worship the Greek gods or something else. But, it provides a "prompt" for the Amazons scientific and technological endeavours to grow and expand as new Amazons bring their own knowledge (and it also enables greater diversity). That's not to say that the "original" Amazons sat around and didn't seek any form of further development or gain additional knowledge - they did. And of a mystical / magical kind also.

    That's the general gist of it. I'm not sure about the Bana Mighdall Amazons. Maybe they voluntarily left Themyscira some time ago? Maybe Themyscira is large and it's a wholly separate city-state on the island? Maybe they rejected the Greek gods offer way back when and instead formed their own solitary society in man's world (or accepted the help of another god / patron, for example, Ares: God of War or a "god of war" from another pantheon (e.g. Egyptian)).

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,795

    Default

    I wouldn't have any of the original pre-Diana Amazons be made from clay. Hippolyta and her sisters (Antiope, Melanippe, Penthesilea and Glauce) would be the demigod daughters of Ares and Otrera, who would herself be a badass warrior woman. The daughters reject their fathers ways and embrace Aphrodite as their patron goddess, and Aphrodite gives Hippolyta the Magic Girdle. The Amazon nation is built up around Hippolyta as women from all over the world come to her city to live in freedom and peace. After they are well established, cue Hercules coming along. Hercules could be manipulated by Ares to antagonize the Amazons and goad Hippolyta into giving up on the peace and love thing and embrace war. The ensuing war destroys the Amazons' city even if they fight their way to freedom, and Hippolyta shows Hercules mercy after defeating him and reclaiming the Girdle. She leads the majority of the Amazons away to Paradise Island, which Aphrodite offers them in exchange for guarding the outside world from mythological threats. She wouldn't force them to go, it is their choice, but there is a price for turning their back on the outside world.

    I'd take cues from LOWW for the fates of Hippolyta's sisters. Penthesilea and her own faction of Amazons decide not to join the main group. She goes on to fight and die in the Trojan War, and her faction eventually leads to the Bana Amazons. Antiope and Melanippe would be on Paradise Island, the former being the head of their army with Philippus as her second, and the latter as the island's lead oracle. They would play key roles in helping raise Diana. Glauce could maybe be the one who is killed during the war with Hercules, and her soul would later become Astarte.

    They would find an derelict, ancient alien space craft buried in the island. Maybe a Venusian vessel tied to Desira's people, or a revamp of the Golden Age space Amazons who wore cat heads (lol) where they got the Kangas from. Experimenting with the devices they find within would lead to their technological advancements over the centuries.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,360

    Default

    I would make them regular women who wanted to seek shelter from abuse and recused infants. I would go LoWW where the amazons can have children yet Hippoltya can't
    Support IMPOSSIBLE JONES

    impossiblekickstarter.com

  7. #7
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,640

    Default

    The Amazons should have a chthonic origin myth--in keeping with many ancient origin myths where people are created from the Earth.

    Five thousand years ago, ancient fertility goddess Aphrodite (also known by other names like Ishtar and Ashtoreth)--after the waters of the Euxine Sea, aka Black Sea, have receded--forms from the sea's clay the immortal Amazon race. Note: there's a theory that the Black Sea had once rose and deluged the land around it, perpetuating myths about a flood--that is thought to be around seven thousand years ago.

    The Amazons living in the area of Anatolia become very skilled at horse-riding. They wear a form of pants, to better ride their horses--which ancient Greeks find peculiar. Their civilization is ruled by a triumvirate of three queens: Hippolyte (ruler of the exterior), Antiope (ruler of the interior) and Menalippe (ruler of the supernal).

    There's friction between the Amazons and their neighbours but they live in relative peace until about three thousand years ago. At that time, Theseus and Heracles lead an army to the Amazon homeland which the Greeks call Themiscyra and they attack the Amazons. However, the warrior women prevail.

    After the battle, Heracles sues for peace and Hippolyte leads an envoy of Amazons to the Greek encampment. However, it's a trap and the Greeks take the women prisoner and bring them back to the Peloponnese as their slaves. Antiope leads a rescue mission to free her sisters, while Menalippe stays behind to rule over the remaining Amazons.

    Antiope's invading Amazon ships and cavalry, on the frontiers of Greece, are held off for many years. Meanwhile Hippolyte and her sisters are forced to adopt Greek culture, Greek language and Greek iconography. Finally, Antiope and her warrior women attack Athens and overrun the city. However, their victory is short-lived as the Greeks gain the upper hand.

    Theseus makes a bargain with Antiope that he will release every Amazon that wishes to go, if Antiope will stay and be his wife. She agrees and begs Hippolyte to lead their Amazon sisters out of Athens and back to their homeland near the Euxine Sea. However, having been assimilated into the Greek culture, some of the enslaved Amazons--who are now mothers with half-Greek children--stay in Athens, as well.

    Hippolyte and her army return to the Amazon homeland, where she is welcomed by Menalippe and the other Amazons. They choose one of their own to complete the triumvirate, taking the place of Antiope--and she is Penthesilea. But having been humiliated by the Greeks, Hippolyte gives the role as ruler of the exterior (and leader of the army) to Penthesilea, while Hippolyte takes the crown of Antiope as ruler of the interior.

    More decades pass and Penthesilea leads an army to Ilios to fight on the side of Troy in the Trojan War, but she is killed there by Achilles.

    After the sack of Troy, Greeks attack Themiscyra and drive out the Amazons, who take to their ships and embark on an odyssey. With them, they bring some of the clay from the shores of the Euxine Sea--as they believe it to have magical properties. In the hands of the gods and destiny, the Amazons eventually arrive at a mystic island, where Aphrodite, speaking through Menalippe, makes a new convenant with the Amazons that they should remain on this island paradise, but they must wear shackles on their wrists to remind them of their past sufferings.
    Celebrating 150 Years of the Hectograph!
    1869 - 2019
    👍

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    687

    Default

    Five thousand years ago, ancient fertility goddess Aphrodite (also known by other names like Ishtar and Ashtoreth)--after the waters of the Euxine Sea, aka Black Sea, have receded--forms from the sea's clay the immortal Amazon race. Note: there's a theory that the Black Sea had once rose and deluged the land around it, perpetuating myths about a flood--that is thought to be around seven thousand years ago.
    I have heard that theory but thought it was not well received, since there are global flood myths in other parts of the world, too. Most scholars, I thought, attributed that to people setting near water (since geological study tells us there was never a global flood), where flooding is common. For Aphrodite, the thing that concerns me about her being known my multiple names is limiting the use of other pantheons in other titles. Though I'm not the use of either of these in DC. Also, which mythology is the most correct one in regards to her history (unless we aren't really using the gods and goddesses as characters, since it wouldn't really matter then)?

    There's friction between the Amazons and their neighbours but they live in relative peace until about three thousand years ago. At that time, Theseus and Heracles lead an army to the Amazon homeland which the Greeks call Themiscyra and they attack the Amazons. However, the warrior women prevail.
    Sounds good.

    You clearly have a good knowledge of Greek myth and are integrating a bit of it.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,360

    Default

    In some myths, the Amazons are Ares children. Why not have it be Ares's children or Aphrodite? Each separately However, it should just be the sisters, not the whole Amazons. The rest are women who look for shelter. They become an egalitarian society, not all female. They become all-female when Hercules comes and kills all the men. The Banas was a section of women that didn't want to go just because they were harmed by Him. They made this their home.
    Support IMPOSSIBLE JONES

    impossiblekickstarter.com

  10. #10
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,640

    Default

    The Greeks acquired other gods and then made them part of their pantheon. This was especially so with all the fertility goddesses that pre-existed the male gods, but then were made in some fashion subordinate to the male gods. Belief in an earth-mother goddess is one of the primal beliefs in human history, but then with paternalism those goddesses were in some way subverted so the sky-father god could become the primary deity.

    I prefer to imagine that the Amazons worshipped these earlier goddesses--and that the Amazons were around before the Mycenaeans (3500 years ago) and maybe at the time of the early Minoans (4500 years ago). But as they absorbed Greek culture and took to using the Greek language, the Amazons simply identified the gods and goddesses with the variety of names they had in different regions of the old world.

    I never liked it when George Perez split up the gods into Greek and Roman pantheons, since many of these gods are the very same gods with the same myth stories. I can understand why someone might want multiple pantheons so you can pit them against each other--Norse gods vs Greek gods--like sports teams, but I favour the many masks of god idea and that a single deity is simply known my many names. Just like in the Sandman comics, Dream is known by many names and appears in different forms.
    Celebrating 150 Years of the Hectograph!
    1869 - 2019
    👍

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,480

    Default

    Liegh Bardugo's Warbringer novel had it that the Amazons are women who if they die with the prayers of a female deity they worship are reincarnated on Themyscira. I'd still allow for artificially created Amazons like Diana and Nubia and adopted Amazons like Donna.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    The Greeks acquired other gods and then made them part of their pantheon. This was especially so with all the fertility goddesses that pre-existed the male gods, but then were made in some fashion subordinate to the male gods. Belief in an earth-mother goddess is one of the primal beliefs in human history, but then with paternalism those goddesses were in some way subverted so the sky-father god could become the primary deity.

    I prefer to imagine that the Amazons worshipped these earlier goddesses--and that the Amazons were around before the Mycenaeans (3500 years ago) and maybe at the time of the early Minoans (4500 years ago). But as they absorbed Greek culture and took to using the Greek language, the Amazons simply identified the gods and goddesses with the variety of names they had in different regions of the old world.

    I never liked it when George Perez split up the gods into Greek and Roman pantheons, since many of these gods are the very same gods with the same myth stories. I can understand why someone might want multiple pantheons so you can pit them against each other--Norse gods vs Greek gods--like sports teams, but I favour the many masks of god idea and that a single deity is simply known my many names. Just like in the Sandman comics, Dream is known by many names and appears in different forms.
    Sandman still had multiple pantheons.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-12-2019 at 10:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •