Questions about Swamp Thing's origins

[Mutant 77]

Well, my questions are simple... they are related to Swamp Thing's origins.


1- Is Holland's bio-restorative serum having been "retconned" (by Moore) as totally useless/unnecessary in the creation of Swamp Thing? I'm saying this because the other members of the Parliament of Trees have been created when an animal burning in flames have met the earth. No serum involved, of course. This angle kinda disappoints me, but I'm asking anyway...


2- In the new DC continuity, is Swamp Thing still the creator of the Parliament of Trees via time travel? And are the older members of the Parliament to be considered "copies" of Swamp Thing/Alec anyway? I just haven't read those stories (yet).


3- Is the new DC continuity discarding the Alan Moore origin?


4- Was the final Alan Moore SW story suitable for being considered as the "definitive ending" of Swamp Thing, theorically speaking?



Thank you so much.

[jetengine]

Afaik Swamp Things are entirely tied to the Green. Their elemental beings and transforming into one requires you to die by fire. The bio restorative is nothing afaik.

[Mutant 77]

Afaik Swamp Things are entirely tied to the Green. Their elemental beings and transforming into one requires you to die by fire. The bio restorative is nothing afaik.

I understand. Since hundreds and hundreds of people died in the fire and their corpses also met the earth, why we haven't got tons of Swamp Things before Alec?

[Restingvoice]

In the New 52, the bio-restorative was essential in making Alec Holland into Swamp Thing because, at the time, The Parliament's base at Amazon jungle was found by The Rot's slaves and burned. They're dying and they weren't strong enough to transform him.

Also in New 52, there's been previous Swamp Things before Holland, but I don't know how often. There's one who's a World War pilot, then another unnamed one killed by Anton Arcane. They're like a series of Champion in their fight against The Rot.

[Mutant 77]

In the New 52, the bio-restorative was essential in making Alec Holland into Swamp Thing because, at the time, The Parliament's base at Amazon jungle was found by The Rot's slaves and burned. They're dying and they weren't strong enough to transform him.

Yeah, got it. And what about the Alan Moore continuity?

[Jim Kelly]

In the Alan Moore origin, you were supposed to pick up that he was referencing other muck monsters that appeared in the comics before Swampy, like the Heap (Hillman, 1942). Wikipedia gives his origin:

The original Heap was formerly Baron Eric von Emmelman (his last name also sometimes spelled Emmelmann), a World War I German flying ace who was shot down in 1918 over a Polish swamp. Clinging to the smallest shred of life through sheer force of will (and, as it was later revealed, with the mystic help of the goddess Ceres, later to be referred to more generically in the series as Mother Nature), through the decades his body decayed and intermingled with the vegetation around him, becoming one with the marshland itself until at last a shaggy, shambling half-world creature neither animal nor man arose from the muck during the early years of World War II, a creature which would become known far and wide as The Heap.

Resembling a huge humanoid haystack whose most visible facial feature was a dangling root-like snout, the mute monstrosity first battled the lupine-cowled Blackhawk-style Allied ace SkyWolf before turning against its fellow Germans who were now fanatical followers of the evil Nazi cause. Then it took to wandering the globe, helping in its semi-mindless and often misunderstood way those in need and battling those monsters more malevolent than itself.

Heap was probably based on Theodore Sturgeon's swamp creature "It," a short story published in 1940 (and later adapted by Marvel Comics). Solomon Grundy has a similar origin, but without the element of fire involved.

[jetengine]

I understand. Since hundreds and hundreds of people died in the fire and their corpses also met the earth, why we haven't got tons of Swamp Things before Alec?

Because they werent chosen to be elementals.

Essentially if the Green chooses you (as well as certain other elements) you have to die by fire to be reborn as a champion. Martin Stein for example was going to be a fire elemental but because of Ronnie Raymond he didnt die and became firestorm.

[dancj]

1- Is Holland's bio-restorative serum having been "retconned" (by Moore) as totally useless/unnecessary in the creation of Swamp Thing? I'm saying this because the other members of the Parliament of Trees have been created when an animal burning in flames have met the earth. No serum involved, of course. This angle kinda disappoints me, but I'm asking anyway...

I'm pretty sure that's left fairly ambiguous. I suspect it made it easier.

4- Was the final Alan Moore SW story suitable for being considered as the "definitive ending" of Swamp Thing, theorically speaking?

IMO, that issue is about the weakest issue in Moore's run and falls way short of being any kind of definitive ending. Mark Millar's ending was much more fitting.

[Mutant 77]

I'm pretty sure that's left fairly ambiguous. I suspect it made it easier.

Yeah. But how does the Parliament "stage" the creation of a new Plant Elemental? Did they cause Alec's death? (the human Alec, I mean).

[dancj]

Yeah. But how does the Parliament "stage" the creation of a new Plant Elemental? Did they cause Alec's death? (the human Alec, I mean).

I forget how much it's the parliament and how much it's the green, but yeah - all of the Plant Elementals are effectively created on purpose. I think they work in the same way the Grim Reaper works in the Final Destination films. Just by causing the coincidences to make it happen.

[Mutant 77]

I forget how much it's the parliament and how much it's the green, but yeah - all of the Plant Elementals are effectively created on purpose. I think they work in the same way the Grim Reaper works in the Final Destination films. Just by causing the coincidences to make it happen.

Interesting!