Is Rachel, Scott and Jean's daughter?

[MyriVerse]

Rachel calling young Cyke “Dad” in Gold was so odd...it’s strange how her parentage is continuously used as a defining aspect of her character when it’s only really used for cheap drama or “look how messed up our continuity is” one-liners. No one wants to commit to fleshing it out further

It's not strange. Her parentage IS her definining aspect.

It's not odd when she refers to 616 Scott as her dad, because emotionally, he is.

[houndsofluv]

It's not strange. Her parentage IS her definining aspect.

It's not odd when she refers to 616 Scott as her dad, because emotionally, he is.

I meant it’s strange how a) writers kind of waste that aspect instead of develop it and b) how she was calling a time-displaced 17 year old her Dad

[Triniking1234]

Rachel is my daughter. I held her for 9 months in the womb and vomited her form from my gullet. Then the mutants came. They took her. They took my baby and brought her with them to their dystopian future. Then she comes back and she cannot recognize me, indoctrinated into the homo "superior" cult. I'll never forgive them. And I'll never forgive myself.

holy ****.

[Askani's Flame]

See, I always hear about this but we never see where it explicitly says that, the only hints to that are that Rachel never knew about Madelyne. In fact, in Days of Future Present, Ahab mentions Rachel's actions in the past as having altered the future enough that the Sentinels sent him back to prevent further changes (of course, then in Excalibur we deal with 811-Prime it can be called, I guess). We don't know that much about the 811 reality but from what we do know, it followed a very similar path to the 616 before diverging with some version of Fatal Attractions occurring. So, it's entirely possible that Jean died and came back like she did in the 616 and then Rachel was born.

That's because Madelyne did not exist or never woke up. For all we know she's still on a slab in one of Sinister's labs in 811. Since Jean never died on the moon, there was no splitting of her soul/consciousness to animate Madelyne. But the sole reason why Ahab came back was not for Rachel, it was for Franklin. He was posing major temporal problems. If Rachel (or Nimrod) were such an issue then Ahab would have been dispatched sooner, no? I mean already Rachel was the host of the Phoenix Force, something that either didn't exist or had been made dormant in 811. It is stated that the two pivotal divergent moments that happened were 1) when Jean went Dark Phoenix in her home and was confronted by her family, unlike in 616 her father did not cast Jean out but reached out to help her. This changed the course of events and Jean never ate a sun and subjected to the Shi'ar duel of honor and never died. She married Scott; 2) Senator Kelly is assassinated and the Mutant Control Act is established. This reactivates the Sentinel program and they evolve to decide that they must rule humans and destroy/contain all powered people.

[Havok83]

"...where the people you thought were your parents, weren't even your parents"

[spirit2011]

"...where the people you thought were your parents, weren't even your parents"

Then later he says that Shiar killed her whole family

Guggemheim can't even tell a coherent story on the same page

[phoenixzero23]

It is weird because Rachel was also with both Jeans on Rogue's wedding and they seemed to get along fine.
Gold is so contradictory.
I'm sticking on x-men Red take on it. Taylor cared enough to actually think things through unlike gold. On Red they seemed fine.

[Narasinha]

See, I always hear about this but we never see where it explicitly says that, the only hints to that are that Rachel never knew about Madelyne. In fact, in Days of Future Present, Ahab mentions Rachel's actions in the past as having altered the future enough that the Sentinels sent him back to prevent further changes (of course, then in Excalibur we deal with 811-Prime it can be called, I guess). We don't know that much about the 811 reality but from what we do know, it followed a very similar path to the 616 before diverging with some version of Fatal Attractions occurring. So, it's entirely possible that Jean died and came back like she did in the 616 and then Rachel was born.

Actually, there is a scene in which Rachel realize that one of the pivotal moment is when Jean's father confronted her when she was turning into Dark Phoenix. In the 616, Jean's father rejected her which led to Jean turning fully into Dark Phoenix, destroying a planet and sacrificing herself on the moon. While in Rachel's universe, he didn't rejected her so she never turned into Dark Phoenix, never destroyed a planet, didn't had to die on the moon, married Scott and gave birth to Rachel.

UXM #199:

[FUBAR007]

Lol. I laughed That’s funny.

On a serious note , peoples’ use of “cuck” as a means of exerting some perceived dominance over another man (especially through fictional characters) is disturbing.

"Cuck" is a contemporary slang word popularized online by misogynistic, juvenile reactionaries.

The word it derives from--"cuckold"--is proper English and far older:

ORIGIN OF CUCKOLD
1200–50; Middle English cukeweld, later cok(k)ewold, cukwold < Anglo-French *cucuald (compare Middle French cucuault), equivalent to Old French cocu cuckoo + -ald, -alt pejorative suffix (see ribald); apparently orig. applied to an adulterer, in allusion to the cuckoo's habit of laying its eggs in other birds' nests

[FUBAR007]

Actually, there is a scene in which Rachel realize that one of the pivotal moment is when Jean's father confronted her when she was turning into Dark Phoenix. In the 616, Jean's father rejected her which led to Jean turning fully into Dark Phoenix, destroying a planet and sacrificing herself on the moon. While in Rachel's universe, he didn't rejected her so she never turned into Dark Phoenix, never destroyed a planet, didn't had to die on the moon, married Scott and gave birth to Rachel.

And then was killed when Mastermind detonated a nuke in Pittsburgh. (Which sounds suspiciously similar to the event that kicked off the original New Universe.)

There were several differences between the histories of Earth-811 and Earth-616.

[Shreene]

Then later he says that Shiar killed her whole family

Guggemheim can't even tell a coherent story on the same page

I had to read that three times before I thought to myself "What's Scott babbling about?". Besides, why do so many people ignore the fact that Rachel knows she's from Earth-811?

[Narasinha]

There is an interesting implication to the "cocoon" retcon that came later: The retcon says that Jean was replaced by a copy made by the Phoenix and it's that copy that died while the real Jean was sleeping in a cocoon under the sea. That mean one of two things: 1) Either this also happened in Rachel's universe and her mother is really the Phoenix copy (and the real Jean was never recovered from the cocoon) 2) or both universe diverged even sooner and Jean was never replaced by a copy in the 811. Which would then imply that what made the difference between Phoenix and Dark Phoenix is that one was the real Jean and the other a (flawed) copy.

Naturally, that's just pure speculation and with all the other retcon that came later...

Edit:
Oh, and another implication is that in the 811 universe a certain Marvel's editor actually did his job and read the script before the comic was printed (and so caught the scene in which Dark Phoenix destroyed a planet before it was too late to change it)

[Triniking1234]

So Scott knocked up a firebird. The realest of heroes. Parker dethroned.

[Havok83]

I had to read that three times before I thought to myself "What's Scott babbling about?". Besides, why do so many people ignore the fact that Rachel knows she's from Earth-811?

Because Rachel often times ignores it herself?

[RachelGrey]

So Scott knocked up a firebird. The realest of heroes. Parker dethroned.

I guess we'll see if Hickman revisits Rachel's uniqueness in the multiverse and the fact that she has no comparable alternate in other world. There are other Rachel Summers and Rachel Greys, but the 811 Rachel Summers is the only one who's heritage is directly linked to the Phoenix force. They may decide to never revisit this, I think the last time it was addressed was House of M.