View Poll Results: How would you rate this issue?

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  • ★★★★★

    276 80.00%
  • ★★★★

    47 13.62%
  • ★★★

    12 3.48%
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  1. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I would say that is pretty bold to call theories you have not actually seen "clearly" not correct, except that I firmly believe that every theory so far is "clearly" not correct.
    I know what he means, I think, and I even floated that theory myself.

    We know that PoX spins directly out of the nation of Krakoa, which we have only seen in the 10th TL, which is HoX, as confirmed with the many notes and references to Moira X.

    That being said, we've seen nothing at all in the 6th TL, and that could be a pretty big macguffin.

  2. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivka View Post
    I call the Hickman Moira, Moira MacGuffin. To contrast the Hickman remake with the complex, brilliant, kind and fierce fighter for equality and justice named Moira MacTaggert created by Claremont and Cockrum.
    But this issue made her an even more complex character, because now we know how exactly she came to be who she is. She knows exactly the consequences on what happens if she fails.

  3. #693
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃Nicola Sturgeon.jpg🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃SMALL SCOTS WOMAN MVP🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🥃

    Moira, y'legend.

  4. #694
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    Was thinking, since Moira is a mutant, her powers of rebirth could be combined into the (all?) Chimera mutants. If that were the case, what happens when they die?

  5. #695
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psx10k View Post
    Was thinking, since Moira is a mutant, her powers of rebirth could be combined into the (all?) Chimera mutants. If that were the case, what happens when they die?
    This why I don't like stories like this, when you try to fit it in with the mythos as a whole, it fails. It is like any X-Men story where a mutant manifests powers that kills an entire town, and then Wolverine has to go kill the kid because no one else can get close, then you think, you know, if even 1% of mutants have a power like that and more and more mutants are manifesting every day, damn right we better cure this.

  6. #696
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psx10k View Post
    Was thinking, since Moira is a mutant, her powers of rebirth could be combined into the (all?) Chimera mutants. If that were the case, what happens when they die?
    Why would they engineer that? That sounds counterproductive. Besides the chimeras powers are not 100% efficient compared to the base mutant so theoretically maybe they are only able to be reborn 1 or 2 times but this would really break the story

  7. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Why would they engineer that? That sounds counterproductive. Besides the chimeras powers are not 100% efficient compared to the base mutant so theoretically maybe they are only able to be reborn 1 or 2 times but this would really break the story
    Depends I think. Disregarding impact to the story, if the mutant leadership (Xavier and others) wanted the Chimeras to retain memories/experiences, this would be a way? On the flip side, if they want the Chimeras to act merely as canon fodder and letting them keep their memories is considered dangerous (risk of rebellion, etc.), they probably wouldn't go near Moira's power.

  8. #698
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    The most common criticism of The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August which this is probably based upon, was that it is rather detached. It may come with the territory.
    It's possible. It seems to be a potential pitfall in this case, although I think it's far too early to say for sure. And I've seen that criticism of some of Hickman's work before....that it's all plot focused and not character focused. And I think there may be a bit of truth to that, but I don't think his stories are absent of character growth or emotion. Some stories in particular are very much about emotion.

    But I also think that it may be the way he approaches the subject matter. This is work for hire with characters who are generally speaking, locked in place from a development standpoint. I don't mean the X-Men in particular, but superheroes at Marvel and DC overall. They don't really change and grow, not without some eventual "back to basics" reversion.

    In this case, I don't think that will happen. Moira was a character who'd been gone from the books for years, so she was a smart choice. No one (or at least, far fewer people) will complain about the changes to this character. Changing her is different than changing Cyclops or Wolverine or Kitty and so on.

    Obviously, Moira and what she brought to Xavier is going to be the main thrust of this series, so I think all emotion we see will be filtered through that. Such as Cyclops in issue 1 with his rather formally friendly stance with the FF that then took a bit of an unfriendly turn. Or the perceived optimism of the new state of affairs expressed by Cypher and Marvel Girl. Or Wolverine playing with the kids.

  9. #699
    New Mutant TOTALITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psx10k View Post
    Was thinking, since Moira is a mutant, her powers of rebirth could be combined into the (all?) Chimera mutants. If that were the case, what happens when they die?
    That reminds me, a friend brought this up: Cardinal’s “I will see you both when the world is made again.” I took it last week as a simple “Krakoa will rise again”, but HOX2 really recontextualizes it. As per your quote, are they reincarnated when they die? Though I think it speaks more to Moira herself, and the question of... what happens to everything and everyone else when Moira dies? Do the Cardinals believe that the whole world is literally rebooted to Moira’s conception each time? Or maybe just a more spiritual/abstract approach to whatever is more likely happening..

    C255DE82-B6A1-462E-8449-4B2F86351182.jpg

  10. #700
    Spectacular Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    This was ace and Moira is ace. I'm all for her and Destiny being the real power players behind the scenes while Xavier, Magneto et al arrogantly think it's just them moving the world forward.

  11. #701
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    It would be kind of funny if somehow we don't see Life 6 because it's all the white and somehow moira is outside of time watching it. It never says Moira died in life 5, it just ends at Genocide in Faraway. Why is that the only year that it specifically doesn't say Moira dies but shows the timeline not continuing. So where is Moira 5?
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-08-2019 at 02:04 PM.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  12. #702
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psx10k View Post
    Was thinking, since Moira is a mutant, her powers of rebirth could be combined into the (all?) Chimera mutants. If that were the case, what happens when they die?
    When they died, new timelines would be created where they are reborn.

    It does not have the slightest utility on the timeline where you live. They are just dead. Quite useless.

    Why would you mind creating new timelines in which things might be better? There is no benefit in it for your universe.
    Last edited by Glio; 08-08-2019 at 02:01 PM.

  13. #703
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOTALITY View Post
    That reminds me, a friend brought this up: Cardinal’s “I will see you both when the world is made again.” I took it last week as a simple “Krakoa will rise again”, but HOX2 really recontextualizes it. As per your quote, are they reincarnated when they die? Though I think it speaks more to Moira herself, and the question of... what happens to everything and everyone else when Moira dies? Do the Cardinals believe that the whole world is literally rebooted to Moira’s conception each time? Or maybe just a more spiritual/abstract approach to whatever is more likely happening..

    C255DE82-B6A1-462E-8449-4B2F86351182.jpg

    On the subject of "the world", one of the angles that I thought Hickman might play with is accelerated time in an artificially encapsulated world (since he originally said no time travel and no alternate realities). If he did this, I thought he might tie it to Mike Carey's "Children of the Vault", but then I was told Fantomex's "The World" has this time acceleration concept already.

    Given all the things Hickman has so far pulled into the story:
    - The "World"
    - Chimera hatching/cloning with powers from other mutants
    - Moira's Pre-defined Lifespan (10/11 years), Rebirth Power
    maybe Xavier and Moira's plan is to create many artificial "Worlds" using different parameters and different combinations of Chimera mutants. They could then see which "Worlds" (or in different parlance, which "timelines"/"realities") would be beneficial for mutants. If that "World" didn't produce a satisfactory result, get the inputs, learn from the mistakes, rinse, and repeat. It's kind of the same concept Hickman used in New Avengers when trying to find alternative solutions to the big problem they were facing (sorry, not sure if everyone has read it, so don't want to talk about it directly with spoilers). This would mean Moira wouldn't need to "waste" anymore of her own finite lives (she's on her last or 2nd last) to try different variations/solutions to the same problem.


    That's why I personally like Hickman's writing style. His ideas are very grand and very open to lots of interesting concepts/directions to go! Looking mainly at his Avengers (and likely X-men), character development does suffer at the expense of plot, but for me, it's quite the ride!

  14. #704
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    It's possible. It seems to be a potential pitfall in this case, although I think it's far too early to say for sure. And I've seen that criticism of some of Hickman's work before....that it's all plot focused and not character focused. And I think there may be a bit of truth to that, but I don't think his stories are absent of character growth or emotion. Some stories in particular are very much about emotion.
    No they are by no means absent, but the stories are not ‘about’ said emotion or structured around character moments, which means people that prefer such stories will find them challenging.

    But I also think that it may be the way he approaches the subject matter. This is work for hire with characters who are generally speaking, locked in place from a development standpoint. I don't mean the X-Men in particular, but superheroes at Marvel and DC overall. They don't really change and grow, not without some eventual "back to basics" reversion.
    His non-Marvel work has a similarly plot driven focus. I think he is great at this kind of story. It’s a valid critique but it’s not really a negative quality in and of itself. It’s all subjective.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  15. #705
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    When they died, new timelines would be created where they are reborn.

    It does not have the slightest utility on the timeline where you live. They are just dead. Quite useless.

    Why would you mind creating new timelines in which things might be better? There is no benefit in it for your universe.

    Good point that it wouldn't affect their timeline directly. But, if they could take the inputs and apply the results to their own timeline, that's a different story (see my theory above)?

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